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THCa Pseudopolymorphism

If Cannabis extracts(Rosin, BHO, Dry Sift, etc) were a Saiyan Super then Budder would be the final form.

Budder/Wax/Whatever you want to call the polycrystalline form of THCa dominant extracts is the "least energy state."

In thermodynamics this means that budder/wax/all polycrystal forms are the most thermodynamically stable form of THCa dominant Cannabis extracts.

If we used the image to model the shatter(amorphous monocrystalline) and budder(polycrystalline) phenomena then 1 would shatter, 2 would the transition, and 3 is budder/wax/polycrystal. Add heat in the range of 120F-145F and the thermal energy will push the ball over the hump(metaphorically) and your extract turns to budder.

9zSTinD.jpg


Whipping it or physically agitating it adds kinetic energy. Also the whipper itself can act as a nucleation point for crystal to form around producing a much smaller grain size. Honeycomb style budder made in a vacuum oven typically has visually larger grain sizes to the crystal formation and dewaxing appears to further enlarge the grain size.

Water in small amounts disrupts the formation of the monocrystal and can also trigger buddering. Certain terpene profiles that are more hygroscopic will absorb water out of the air and this will add the water that causes delayed auto buddering sometimes. People that live in less humid likely will find they have an easier time keeping their shatters form autobuddering.

Being that THCa on it's own is a granular crystal that does not show true polymorphism on it's own the shatter and budder phenomena are largely terpene dependent. Primarily it's the terpenes that act as "interfering agents" like fructose does in candy making. Lipids, other cannabinoids, and impurities/contaminants can add to or influence this effect also. Losing too many terpenes will result in autobuddering.

Extracts that contain significant amounts of CBDa tend to remain sappy and will not budder. CBDa on it's own does crystallize, but only at high purity. It seems that THCa crystallizes much more readily than CBDa. Decarboxylated extracts will not form shatter or budder, they will always be sappy/viscous liquid. Buddering that happens in a vacuum and show it is not an oxidation reaction although it seems plausible that oxidation could accelerate or influence autobuddering. If you have an emulsion because of too much water that's when you get that gel like form. A Cannabis extract emulsion will not be solid like a polycrystal budder.
Pseudopolymorphism is also known as solvatomorphism.
In this case the terpenes as solvating the THCa.

If your THCa dominant extract is sappy and clean of residual solvent then the sappiness is from a high terpene content.(Assuming you didn't heat it past 160F, there's not water, no CBD, and the THCa has not been decarboxylated.)
 
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Hashmasta-Kut

honey oil addict
Veteran
hey, thanks again!

I have been heat pressing a red congo panama red, and my extract form it is a very runny/drippy substance, if i scrape it from the parchment carefully with a razor. But when i colllect it with a glass roller, it becomes much harder right away. must be losing a lot of terpenes or other moisture just by the act of collecting that way? I'd have to say its always darker too when rolled up, and with this particular strain it looks a green tint when roller collected, but collected with a light razor scrape, its pure golden, very odd.
 

Hashmasta-Kut

honey oil addict
Veteran
I kind of disagree with that terminology. Although the original heat pressing was called rosin, it really was hash rubbed on a heated steel bowl. Other than a nod to compashon coming up with that, rosin is not the right term for the style of heat pressed extracts we are doing these days, in my opinion. Pressing a bud with pressure and heat in parchment paper is not really the same as rubbing hash on a heated steel bowl.

But yes, rosin! :D
 
I'm not a fan of the term either.

Feel like I'm stuck with using it though.

Flower Rosin is a steam distillation. It's steam that breaks down the trichome head and carries the resin away from the bud.

The presence of moisture in Rosin is going to explain your results. Excessive moisture can render your product sappy and the amphiphilic lipids of the trichome head itself can emulsify the resin and water together.
 

Phenome

-
ICMag Donor
Decarboxylated extracts will not form shatter or budder, they will always be sappy/viscous liquid.)
Are you referring to decarboxylating ( by using heat) the oil after extracting fresh material that hasn't been decarboxylated? Because you for sure can get stable shatter from old slow cured (decarboxylated) material.
 
If something is partially decarboxylated then it would be shatter on the sappier side.

Proper curing isn't going to decarb very much. Decarboxylation at room temp is a slow process.
 

Pangea

Active member
Veteran
Do you disagree with my responses to this topic on reddit or just wanting to broaden the discussion?

Your title and discussion is a misnomer and is the first step down the misunderstanding.

THCa may infact be pseudopolymorphic but at this point even calling it a polymorphic crystalline would be jumping the gun and not at all relevant to what you are trying to discuss.

You are trying to describe the materialistic properties of the oleoresin with specific scientific terms that do not apply at all to what you are describing/discussing.

Polymorphism has to do with crystals. The resin that waxes, shatter, budders are not a crystal and thus cannot be a polymorphic substance.

The way in which and if THCa precipitates out of the solution of oleoresin will determine its state(wax, budder, shatter) and has nothing to do with its polymorphic nature(if it has one)

You are spreading bad science and information, please stop.
 

Phenome

-
ICMag Donor
Do you disagree with my responses to this topic on reddit or just wanting to broaden the discussion?

Your title and discussion is a misnomer and is the first step down the misunderstanding.

THCa may infact be pseudopolymorphic but at this point even calling it a polymorphic crystalline would be jumping the gun and not at all relevant to what you are trying to discuss.

You are trying to describe the materialistic properties of the oleoresin with specific scientific terms that do not apply at all to what you are describing/discussing.

Polymorphism has to do with crystals. The resin that waxes, shatter, budders are not a crystal and thus cannot be a polymorphic substance.

The way in which and if THCa precipitates out of the solution of oleoresin will determine its state(wax, budder, shatter) and has nothing to do with its polymorphic nature(if it has one)

You are spreading bad science and information, please stop.

Pangea, I would give you rep if I could.
 

Phenome

-
ICMag Donor
If something is partially decarboxylated then it would be shatter on the sappier side.

Proper curing isn't going to decarb very much. Decarboxylation at room temp is a slow process.

What about budder then? You yourself said waxes and lipids contribute to budder. Same with moisture/ humidity. So than how can you not get budder from decarboxylated material if other variables change the outcome?
 

Daub Marley

Member
If something is partially decarboxylated then it would be shatter on the sappier side.

Proper curing isn't going to decarb very much. Decarboxylation at room temp is a slow process.
I think you mean decarboxylation while inside the trichome
"Δ9-THCA is very unstable, decomposing rapidly in the presence of oxygen, light and acids. It is stable for 3 months at -20°C, 2 weeks at 5°C, and 4 days at room temperature" (Zoller et. al. 2000)
 

Phenome

-
ICMag Donor
No you cant.
So you are saying that the only way to get stable shatter is making live resin? Because I anytime I deal with fresh plant the moisture will budder the end product every time. I don't need to argue when I'm in front of slabs of stable shatter from slow cured decarboxylated trim.
 

Phenome

-
ICMag Donor
Dude dodge questions all you want but for real, listen to Pangea and stop spreading false info. Talk to grey wolf and he will give the real science
 
So you are saying that the only way to get stable shatter is making live resin? Because I anytime I deal with fresh plant the moisture will budder the end product every time. I don't need to argue when I'm in front of slabs of stable shatter from slow cured decarboxylated trim.

Dried/cured is not the same as decarboxylated. Look at your test results. Look at the ratio between the decarboxylated delta nine thc and the inactive thc-a
 

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