[kopite]

Following on from TomHill stating:

when can we realize that the above plant is next to worthless? when can we realize that pretty much every single breeding scheme put forth by anybody is absolutely worthless? when will we we accept how we have been treating cannabis for going on 5 decades now? Drug strain cannabis is a plant grown from clone,,, like an apple tree or pear or any other thing we see in this regard in our everyday lives.. fucking wise up this is getting tiring..

How are people finding their keepers/elites? and in what sort of numbers? you finding more in fem releases? you're own breeding? with or without males? how many are a random cross? how many come from a intersex (self)

If you like to breed then how you going about it? is it pointless having something too homozygous that will dominate a cross? enquiring minds want to know....

[MJPassion]

Hmmm...

What's to be said about unplanned accidents?
I like more of my accidents than what i've planned, so far.

Those seem to be where a lot of these elite strains come from. At least in todays world.



Variety is the spice of life.
I love going through seeds just to see what may come of these wonderful plants.

Only elites I've ever had in my possession were Tahoe OG Kush & Bubba Kush.
Both had their worth but they weren't for me... Though, I do have both in a cross...

[master chine]

Thing call pop as many seed possible to find out!!.
And à old man say thé best plant is thé one tout have in you hand
Peace

[amanda88]

Originally Posted by kopite

If you like to breed then how you going about it? is it pointless having something too homozygous that will dominate a cross? enquiring minds want to know....

I make my strain selection months in advance, thru a list of desirables, and over the years that 'list' is getting further further away from the stoner view and more leaning toward the grower or breeders perspective, denigrating say 'smell' which is of importance to the toker, but of little worth to the breeder(imo), but at the same time promoting one strain up the list due to its Pm. tolerance ...just as an example, tho too many, smell maybe just as important to the breeder...Horses for Courses, as the saying goes

[azad]

Your desire defines you. Once in a lifetime you will be handed something special. Find it where you will utilise it has you can. It won't stay long but it's memories will haunt and keep you seeking tirelessly. If you plant with love every leaf that grows will tell you. What you sow will bare fruit . So if you have any sense my friend don't plant anything but love.

[Sativied]

Originally Posted by kopite

How are people finding their keepers/elites?

Usually in seeds that produce plants bred for certain desired traits.

The quote in your first post makes no sense. Breeding comes in many forms with many different goals, one of them is to purposly create variation to select a new variety from. Obviously that works quite wellif the goal is to find a plant to clone.

Whether it's finding a keeper or breeding in general, start by specifying your goals. In your case, what makes a keeper for you. Find 2-3 varieties that express those traits and mix them, take to F2 and start hunting, or create multiple F3 lines first, and/or backcross to one of the original parents. Since you're looking for a clone, it doesn't matter much how stable the original parents are.

A possible longer journey, and a bigger gamble is to create two IBLs and cross those into a real F1 hybrid. That will give you a wide adaptable heterozygous genetic makeup yet similarly uniform as the original ibl parents. That is how many 'elite' food crops are created, breed two homozygous lines to create a homogeneous heterozygous F1 hybrid. Downside is less variety to pick from but there will always be some variation in terms of quantitative traits so you can still clone the best.

[kopite]

Originally Posted by Sativied

Usually in seeds that produce plants bred for certain desired traits.

The quote in your first post makes no sense. Breeding comes in many forms with many different goals, one of them is to purposly create variation to select a new variety from. Obviously that works quite wellif the goal is to find a plant to clone.

Whether it's finding a keeper or breeding in general, start by specifying your goals. In your case, what makes a keeper for you. Find 2-3 varieties that express those traits and mix them, take to F2 and start hunting, or create multiple F3 lines first, and/or backcross to one of the original parents. Since you're looking for a clone, it doesn't matter much how stable the original parents are.

A possible longer journey, and a bigger gamble is to create two IBLs and cross those into a real F1 hybrid. That will give you a wide adaptable heterozygous genetic makeup yet similarly uniform as the original ibl parents. That is how many 'elite' food crops are created, breed two homozygous lines to create a homogeneous heterozygous F1 hybrid. Downside is less variety to pick from but there will always be some variation in terms of quantitative traits so you can still clone the best.

And how many people do that? most are still producing a cross on what they think sounds nice... I'm one that has done just that, bred populations for a few years, but for finding a keeper an Individual then I would be wasting my time looking in those imo and better served with a different program to find keepers, Though I certainly see the value in an IBL..

Since you're looking for a clone, it doesn't matter much how stable the original parents are.

Well if that's the case, the starting point does not matter, just finding the gold does....

[kopite]

Originally Posted by azad

Your desire defines you. Once in a lifetime you will be handed something special. Find it where you will utilise it has you can. It won't stay long but it's memories will haunt and keep you seeking tirelessly. If you plant with love every leaf that grows will tell you. What you sow will bare fruit . So if you have any sense my friend don't plant anything but love.

We have all loved and lost, but continue to seek.... and anyway - Love does not dominate; it cultivates

[kopite]

Originally Posted by amanda88

I make my strain selection months in advance, thru a list of desirables, and over the years that 'list' is getting further further away from the stoner view and more leaning toward the grower or breeders perspective, denigrating say 'smell' which is of importance to the toker, but of little worth to the breeder(imo), but at the same time promoting one strain up the list due to its Pm. tolerance ...just as an example, tho too many, smell maybe just as important to the breeder...Horses for Courses, as the saying goes

I too have had lists or desirable traits I have seeked and selected for, perhaps I should of concentrated more on just the end result than being so stringent in selection, I don't know... but since this is not about populations but more individuals then maybe we should be looking at what is desirable for a "keeper" or "elite".. again I find a post of hybs that helps list;

WHAT’S ELITE?It’s very subjective for sure, but, for the purposes of this segment of the cannabis genepool, “elite” may be defined simply as:
Any material that is favorable for the purpose.
If, for example, the purpose is for some medical benefit, then that elite status is different than if the purpose is for yield. If the purpose is for potency, then that elite status may differ from the elite status as a flavorful smoke. ‘eliteness’ is subject to anyone’s opinion, and that no one’s opinion is necessarily wrong.
There are different ways to further define and evaluate what is elite: namely phenotypically and/or genotypically, and I will address those later.
Every plant breeder will have defined goals before even beginning to collect germplasm for the breeding program. In every case, the breeder will either choose germplasm that already displays those favorable phenotypic characters he intends to keep and/or improve, or will choose germplasm that may not be considered elite in all respects, but contains genes that will be incorporated to make improvements to existing elite germplasm. In some cases, collection and production of composite populations are created in order to merely select new elite individuals for propagation via cuttings/clones. Any of these scenarios are real possibilities for cannabis breeders today.
Phenotypic elites
Plants may be assessed by their phenotypic value and most often are judged this way. Phenotypic evaluation is based upon only the visible characters. Although it‘s basically true that a plant’s genotype cannot be completely verified by its phenotype alone, it should be noted that it is, however, a good indicator of what genes are being expressed. The phenotype is, in short, the product of dominant genes, and homozygous recessive genes, as expressed in a particular environment. With phenotypic evaluation, there has been no test of the breeding value of the plant or population. A plant’s ‘breeding value’ is based solely on the value of its progeny.
Genotypic elites
Plants can be evaluated by their ability to create favorable offspring. Plants that have been deemed elite, judged by the assessment of their offspring, may be known as ‘genotypically elite’. Genotypic elites are not required for those people who merely want a good plant to use as a mother. Genotypic AND phenotypic elites are used by plant breeders who incorporate them into their breeding programs for the improvement of character means. As you may be able to tell, genotypic elites are considered to be more effective for this purpose.

For the purposes of growing seed-free, high potency female plants, hermaphrodites are considered NOT ELITE, and should be culled by everyone who manipulates the genepool. Hermaphrodites have no selective value, and, to my knowledge have not been linked favorably, nor correlated to, any valuable characters within the DCP. A combination of phenotypic and genotypic evaluation is required to delete this character from the DCP. Incorporation of wild, equatorial and commercially imported germplasm should be done only under careful consideration, and should be genotypically evaluated BEFORE they are entered into any DCP program.
Its generally accepted that new improved seedlines will be derived from previously elite populations, and that new cultivar introductions are rarely derived from un-improved or un-adapted gene stock, except in some cases of hardiness, pest or disease susceptibility, etc., where the necessary genes have been lost in favor of other characters and, for whatever reason, cannot be incorporated from elite populations.
Elite DCP plants will, generally speaking, be hardy plants. They will grow without special care and be resistant to the environmental pressures typical of indoor/outdoor cultivation. Elites are typically potent. They are typically the plants that are higher yielding or have desirable aroma/flavor.
Elite plants are often judged by their trichome density and in many cases-good or bad- have been selected for higher trichome counts and high calyx-to-leaf ratio. Here again, there are as many criteria as there are people to give an opinion.
Elite plants can also be those plants that have survived for many years as a clone, having been introduced into many adverse environments and still remain the plants that are alive, grown and passed along to other growers, when other clones have come and gone for whatever reasons. Elites are themselves hermaphrodite-free and don’t produce herm progeny when mated.
Add your own defintion of what an elite is to you and make it happen.
Elite matings are a viable approach to cannabis improvement at this time. Collect them, breed them, enjoy them.
eXe

Perhaps Tom and others disagree on the culling of intersexual plants, hyb didn't or doesn't seem to like tropical canna, and if the concern is for intersex then I agree....

[Lyfespan]

im starting again with 3 males from the same seed stock and 3 females from the same seed stock for the long hunt for more worthy black domina