Very early sexing without cloning?

Penniless Punk · Aug 4, 2015

Hey everyone.

This is my very first post, so I want to start it out by thanking everyone who contributes here for your time and the invaluable information you make available. I'm definitely humbled by the vast amount of knowledge there is to absorb..and grateful that y'all cared to share.

Specifically, thanks to Quazi for his excellent post titled: Understanding the Art of LST
and Garhart for his post on killing root aphids with hot water alone.
Gentlemen..my biscuits were saved from burning twice thanks to your posts. Again, thank you.

I'll try to contribute as much as I can, but surrounded by masters, the grasshopper may not hop very high at first. I'll try to learn quickly.

(Smoke break.. :smoke:

)

I have a question regards early sexing. I've read two different articles/posts that say its possible to sex plants without cloning as early as week 3 or 4 into veg. I would very much like to learn to do this, but don't know what to look for.

Does anyone have an in depth description they could offer of what the very earliest signs of sex look like and how the sexes differ? How about pictures?

Any help getting the hang of this would really be appreciated.

daf

:smoweed:

iTarzan · Aug 4, 2015

You can put them under 12/12 for 3 days and then get them back to 16-8 or 18-6 or 24-0. They won't need to reveg but do reveal their sex.

Or take a cut and put it in a glass of water under 12/12 until it starts to flower in 10-12 days and reveals its sex. Then just toss it. Unrooted cuts will flower.

Penniless Punk · Aug 4, 2015

Thanks for the fast response and the great information. I like the first option..it fits my needs.

How many weeks into veg can I do this quick veg-flower-veg thing? And what do the sex organs look like when they're first coming out?

eace:

daf

Budley Doright · Aug 4, 2015

I dont believe there is any magical way of sexing a plant unless its showing female preflowers....

You might be able to tell a few at 3 weeks.... but most are like 4 or 5....

Once the plant produces the first preflowers it will produce them at every node after that....

The key is magnification......and knowing where to find the first flowers.....

To find the first preflowers you must look very high on the plant....

and know they occur behind the stipules.... to get a better look I find it a good idea to tear off the stipule ... grab with tweezers and pull down......

The earlier you try to sex them the more mistakes you make.....

Back a long time ago I used to grow only seeds.

I would transplant the females.... and kill the males....

One problem is undifferentiated preflowers are often confused for male....

Under magnification.... 10x or so is enough..... your will quickly learn to call 80 or 90 percent.....but I was never able to get the early calls all correct.....

Budley Doright · Aug 4, 2015

iTarzan said:
You can put them under 12/12 for 3 days and then get them back to 16-8 or 18-6 or 24-0. They won't need to reveg but do reveal their sex.

Or take a cut and put it in a glass of water under 12/12 until it starts to flower in 10-12 days and reveals its sex. Then just toss it. Unrooted cuts will flower.

I am slightly skeptical of this method.....

There is a thread here.....called something like

12-12 from seed

A plant will only show sex when its sexually mature....

and you still have to find the preflowers anyway....

Its best to find a good glass for magnification and get small....

As far as flowering a cutting.... I dont like that idea much at all....

I dont think its any faster than leaving the plant intact and learning to see the early signs....

Penniless Punk · Aug 4, 2015

Lot of good info, Budley. Thanks.

If I understand right, the females will show some sort of pistil where the male will start to get round?

daf

Budley Doright · Aug 4, 2015

Nope.... you are looking actually for the calyx without a pistil....

the pistil only emerges once the calyx ages a bit....

There is a big difference in sexing a plant...and sexing it very early...

A pistil is a clear confirmation that your early call was correct...

Budley Doright · Aug 4, 2015

Think of the preflower like any other flower.....

What you are actually looking for is the flower bud....

There is no flower that blooms immediately....

The flower will bloom after it ages and matures...

WIth this basic concept in mind....

most folks sex based on pistils....

But it would have been possible to sex those plants based on the shape of their preflower buds..... the calyx....

if you want to sex them as early as possible...

iTarzan · Aug 4, 2015

Preflowers can and do happen before a plant is sexually mature. They often happen before alternating leaves.

The cutting method is more for seedlings that have not revealed after alternating leaves have developed. I used to start lots of seedlings for outdoor grows and some would never show preflowers for 10 weeks or so and would jam up my schedule.

I learned from some outside growers on Planet Ganja that you could 12/12 them a few days and get them to cooperate.

The cutting method was always an older seedling so I stand corrected. But a few extra weeks of 12/12 a cutting is better than digging an extra hole, planting a seedling and have it be male later on and a waste of time and effort.

When they have 4-5 nodes put them in 12/12 for 3 days and back to normal light.

Budley Doright · Aug 4, 2015

Preflowers can and do happen before a plant is sexually mature. They often happen before alternating leaves.

===================================================

Lets just say I find that a very contradictory statement....

I used to pollinate just preflowers...... and I got real seeds.....

A general statement what sexual maturity is....
The sexual maturity is the stage in which an organism became capable to reproduce itself and generate offsprings.

Im a little bit puzzled by some statement that alternating nodes denotes sexual maturity......

Penniless Punk · Aug 4, 2015

Put a bag over her head?!

Put a bag over her head?!

I just read that you can induce a SINGLE branch to flower by placing a non-plastic light proof bag over it and sealing to the stem with a twist tie for 12 hours a day.

Supposedly, the single branch will start to flower without needing to be removed from the plant or without the entire plant having to go through the stress. Any comments, experiences?

Thanks again for all of the feedback. I've been studying pictures of young calyxes trying to determine the differences for myself. There really is no substitute for experience.

daf
:smoweed:

Budley Doright · Aug 4, 2015

Bad idea...imo..... before any flowers grow on that branch the main stem will already have preflowers.....

Sam_Skunkman · Aug 4, 2015

Early flowering varieties will show sex with just one day of long night, it might take three days long nights to sex a NLD late maturing variety, then they will show sex a few weeks later like in 10-21 days, but they do not flower as long as they were returned to long light veg photoperiod.
If the plant is making pre flowers of the opposite sex then you may have a problem as the phenotypical intersex expression dependent on stress is inherited and I bet not wanted.
-SamS

realistic troll · Aug 4, 2015

ive thrown plants into 12/12 till show sex7-10 daze then back to veg without missing a beat,
documented a test with a couple diffrent ones on another site

iTarzan · Aug 5, 2015

Your turn Budley. Unless you are too busy arguing with other people on every other thread you are on.

You are wrong on them too.

Budley Doright · Aug 5, 2015

iTarzan said:
Your turn Budley. Unless you are too busy arguing with other people on every other thread you are on.

You are wrong on them too.

Oh I get it.....

its the alternating nodes thing.....

lol..... too funny...

WHatever method you use ......

YOu still have to get in there and look....

again....the best place to look is at the top of the plant....and under magnification to be able to sex the plant as early as possible...

Im not sure what I was wrong about....... you mean I am wrong about being skeptical....

I love to read the science myself....

so if anyone has sources that are worthwhile ....please post them.....

As far as experiences go.....beauty is in the eye of the beholder....

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=309503

By the way..... management saw fit to post my thread as a sticky thread.....yesterday

I think anyone who is into the science of growing....stop by.....

Its going to be a boatload of fun....

Hey sam..... you are invited too....]

Im sure you can bring some fun to the party.....

BY the way sam.... I havent got back to the grafting thing......been too busy with my airlayering project....

But I am going to return to those experiments....

Thanks for the encouragement....

bigshrimp · Aug 5, 2015

Usually plants take about 4-5 weeks to show sex in my experience, topping and training will delay sexual expression.

look for vaginas and balls - vagina = girls , balls = boys

lmao

Budley Doright · Aug 5, 2015

Totally agree......

the same problem with flowering a branch.....

by the time that there is a branch to flower its already showing....

Au natural...

Penniless Punk · Aug 5, 2015

For the record, I appreciate ALL opinions. I'll sort through them, experiment a bit myself and stick with what works for me.

I'm going through pictures of calyxes trying to determine which is which. I suppose when I get to that point, if I'm unsure..it's a matter of waiting a day or two for a female to reveal if she's going to.

Appreciate the shares. This hobby really lets you go as advanced or stay as basic as you like. Some of the things you gentlemen(and ladies) are doing is phenomenal.

Smoke on..

daf

Budley Doright · Aug 5, 2015

One little thing about a female bud...... the tip is a funny color green.....

get in close...you will see what I mean...

Dead giveaway.....

Very early sexing without cloning?

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