[Charles-scott]

Hi Chimera I know you closed that thread but I have a quick ? Considering that you never acknowledged what cut you used did you possibly look at the strains that were said to be used in breeding the strain look at analytical data from confirmed flowers and just start breeding program that led you to match the profile?
If that is the case that's is really cool .
I learned how far you can get supported with a full lab I certainly would have to give you credit if that was your method of development.
You found a individual that matched and produced s1 ?
Maybe I'm out to lunch ?

Charles

[stoney917]

Pretty sure he collected as many cookie cuts he could... got some bud from cookie fam dispensary tested said bud for terps n cannbinoids etc etc... compared the result of collected clones to the cookiefam bud.. selected 3 that were almost spot on and then reversed the best one of the 3..,.. which cuts made It to the final3 idk he aint say..... im sure we would all like to know.... but who to say what he got as forum is what i got as forum n not animal,.. thats why he aint namon cuts... hopin sometime soon i can get him my cookie cuts so i can see if my thoughts on cookies r correct...
That is what I think not in know way certain n its probably a bit more involved. ..

[Space Toker]

whoa man you are treading on hallowed ground better just leave it alone already From what I have seen at the other thread, that might not be a bad idea actually! The basic jist I got out of it is he has the skills and technical tools most don't and did an extensive exhaustive search and he proved other stuff was fake and he obtained the reai GSC, and has reproduced it in limited form for breeders/wannabe breeders/closet hacks to use as a tool for creating whatever they are out to create. Better just leave it at that!

Now I am treading on dangerous ground as well! I am trying to be humorous but also I mean what I say. And, if I was going to assign blind faith on anyone without knowing, it would be Chimera. But no need for blindly following the lemmings here, he has a long time proven track record, and I don't think he is about to deviate from that now, he did say slap me if I am promoting and I thought about it, but no he's cool and the real deal.

I tried c4 and it was great, let me just say the man knows what he is doing and you can trust the man! What seems like arrogance (yeah thought that and made that mistake too, as with so many breders) or know it all attitude or whatever... well this guy kind of almost does know it all or a great deal and we all should respect that. I have 6 of these and while from what i hear I cannot look forward to it being the 2nd coming of Christ or the savior of cannabis, and the yield will almost certainly disappoint anyone not growing for just a little killer dank, it is a valuable tool nonthelesa. I have GG4 and some SFV OG hybrids I hope to create/recreate things lost with, and hope to take NL and breed it with this AND keep crossing it back to the GSC. Or some yielder like chronic. Looking forward to see what it would look like crossed to mental floss, fighting buddah or schnazzlebwerry #2. Fun times ahead for sure! thanks for that Chimera!

[stoney917]

I dont stress anybody chimera is cool as fuck.. ya he comes off like a know it all but he can always back it up with fact not opinion... . he got more toys lab capabilities then anyone out there n the knowledge to use them to there abilties..... real life mad scientist...
That bein said was a dumbed down version of what i thought he said in the other thread... he said alot in there if ya read close,..
Still got a original gfbb in the stash.. with a pack of old love potion. ..

[Charles-scott]

I am not asking that question to stir the pot at all , I thought perhaps due to his lab access and understanding of terpene interactions combined with the fact he had control samples of real cookies he might have just looked through the cuts and the popular cuttings and strains said to have bred the plant and just done some really impressive breeding locking down the tarp profile .
One cut might have been close for example really close having done enough work testing what certain male or reversed female ,ight impart on a cultivar and what it does not might have led to to a map to push a given clone exactly where it needed to be .
One would go through a target group looking for the profile find the closest three and GO from there to create a S-1 I am just asking a question I sadly lost Lab privileges before I could get far enough to breed towards matching profiles regardless of the names attached to the starting material , from the perspective of creating Chemovars it can be like baking a cake when supported by the lab and a massive collection of genetic material .
That takes a hell off a lot more skill than just producing a s-1 of a cutting , I am very confident that Chimera will not see this as a troll question or one that would not lend credit to his Ability at all if he wishes he can remove this thread and pm me or not .
Charles
Chimera please can this if you want just got curious

[stoney917]

Cant see how ur ? Could be perceived as trollin... was an excellent question asked by another knowledgeable breeder... but its likely he would of preferred a pm ...

[Space Toker]

I meant (with a whole lot of babble and maybe excessive/unwanted words) to convey a very serious point, like stoney said I need not repeat it. But there was endless nonsense and can't blame him for closing that thread. I have 6, I know nothing on what real GSC is as I do not have access to clone only's which is the whole reason I got this. But from what I hear, there are lots of versions and only one real deal which I guess I have now. I am not a liar and will report exactly what I experience and the truth will then be known/told. Chimera has a great reputation and my limited experience backs that up. Enough said.

[Chimera]

Damn I just typed a whole response and lost it to the ether, so you'll have to settle for the short version.

I think I covered the selection process pretty clearly on the other thread, so for brevity I am not going to repeat it here again.

~

Hybrid plants contain a copy of each (1-9 + X/Y) chromosome inherited from each parent. The chromosomes from each parental are different obviously from each other. This is problematic when trying to make certain conclusions, because approaching this problem mating different individuals to each other adds 4 chromosomes into the mix confounding your analysis, rather than just having 2 chromosomes (derived from an S1).

During meiosis, about 50% of parental-type homologs avoid recombination when gametes are being formed, or pollen or ovules are being created, - thus in these cases preserving the chromosome as it was inherited from the respective parent in about 25% of gametes (50% preserved for each respective chromosome).

Breeders can then recover maternal and paternal homologous pairs from a hybrid plant through selfing combined with sufficient screening of the resulting population. Once the parental forms are known and isolated, the original hybrid can be recapitulated via intermating the parental forms.







I use the computer analogy to describe this; when you have a computer in front of you, you have no idea of what components are inside - you simply know how it looks and behaves on the outside (the equivalent of phenotype/chemotype).

Through selfing, you get a look inside of the computer- you get to see what components are present inside, and once you know what is present and have isolated what's inside, you can then put the pieces back together to make another that is the same (or almost the same, with added changes you desire). Selfing is the equivalent of taking apart a computer, and isolating what's inside in homozygous from.

To me, selfing and screening is a much more efficient route to take for this purpose rather than trying to recapitulate a hybrid from plants suspected to be parental types; I prefer to use this method of "busting apart" a hybrid plant through selfing and subsequent screening. Perhaps it's personal philosophy- when I was young I used to take apart broken appliances and electronics and fix them, so to me reducing a system to it's components seems the easiest way to understand it's function.

Originally Posted by Charles-scott

That takes a hell off a lot more skill than just producing a s-1 of a cutting

Surely producing a selfed population is not a feat of skill nor talent, it's an easy and well documented process- you Charles have done it yourself. However, the true skill in breeding comes from interpretation of the data collected from the resulting populations being screened. A self cross will reveal the hetero- or homozygous condition of the plant being selfed, and homozygous recessive forms can be isolated from a segregating generation. Without having a lab, you can never appreciate the degree of variation, nor properly categorize or isolate the various forms hidden within the segregating generation.

It's one thing to say to customers "there are plants that lean towards the mother or father plant, or are OG-like or Bluedream-like (whatever that means), but it's another thing entirely to have exact terpene and cannabinoid profiles, oil contents, and levels of all the terps and cannabs of not only the parental, but hundreds of the S1 progeny.

The real skill and talent comes from identifying patterns within this data, and from that data drawing an understanding of how the pieces of the puzzle go back together - and being able to extrapolate that understanding to not only selfs, or even other hybrids using the parental of the S1, but the S1, S2 or S3 progeny. Better yet, new lines can be created using the homozygous/ isozygous individuals discovered in the process with the end goal of isolating true breeding varietals, or for the production of truly uniform, plantable from seed, hybrid varietals.

This takes not only time, but proper selection of parental types based on valid chemotypic and terpene profiling (rather than via name alone), but also takes the ability and desire to screen hundreds of plants from each cross under standardized conditions, with full analytics of each of the progeny.

This is currently what sets our project well apart from what anyone else is doing in the industry, where everyone is growing clones or perhaps some randomly mated plants- this is targeted breeding for specific profiles and chemotypes. That's not some flippant comment - it's based in reality.

Yes, to some, this comes off as extremely arrogant or as "knowitall-ism"; the reality is however that this work is years ahead of what anyone else is doing with the plant, and right now nobody else has even a remotely similar understanding of how different profiles are inherited.

It's hard to come off not looking like a knowitall when you actually know what you are talking about, and are playing in a sandbox with a group of people that don't really even understand the basics, or if they do understand the basics they have never screened dozens of populations, each exceeding hundreds of seedlings, with careful screening and analytics of each population for each of the parameters cited above. See pic below from a recent planting, I wan't able to capture the top tier of seedlings in that photo- yes those are 72-cell flats.




One simply can't answer these questions without these types of experiments, and the reality of the situation is that in today's market most people are interested in growing pounds or making seeds for sale, rather than dedicating the resources and space to understanding the patterns of inheritance for these valuable traits. You can hate the player, but the reality is that anybody else could theoretically do this work as well, but it just so happens that I've spent the last 20 years studying this topic intensively and am putting that time learning to very good use, and I couldn't be happier about the results because the process of custom designing cultivars for various uses is underway, and many pieces of the puzzle are in place already. This plant will always have more to teach, but we've made serious headway already...

Let the fun continue!

-Chimera

[cr0n]

Wow chi,

Impressive to say the least.

[Golden Tree]

Truly amazing stuff...TRULY!

However....

If you've studied any type of post secondary genetics....Biology...Botany.. .even Human Anatomy & Phsiology...it's not that hard to sit in the same sandbox....it's more a matter of having access to resources...

I hope you are still having fun with breeding......

Intelligence is often mistaken for arrogance...

Keep us updated my friend....very cool stuff....and as you said...NO ONE ELSE......is doing anything like it....so please....fascinating!

GT