[deadlung]

Im wondering what are the chances of getting a plant that is higher yielding but just as strong as the GSC cut that was used. Like a OGKB 2.0 ? lol

Ive never grown S1's ... I have always thought S1 seeds would be near replicas of the mother, but I would also think there could and should be variance due to hidden traits/ genes...

but i have no ideas really what I'm talking about.

[Karmic Farmer]

Originally Posted by deadlung

Im wondering what are the chances of getting a plant that is higher yielding but just as strong as the GSC cut that was used. Like a OGKB 2.0 ? lol

Ive never grown S1's ... I have always thought S1 seeds would be near replicas of the mother, but I would also think there could and should be variance due to hidden traits/ genes...

but i have no ideas really what I'm talking about.

I believe that Chimera said 25-50% should inherit the parent plants terpenoid profile while the others will have a variation of some sort.

Peace,
KF

[Cabinet Ninja]

My 2 packs just arrived. They'll have to go in the fridge for the time being, but once I'm in a suitable location, these will be the first seeds I pop.

Not sure yet what I what male I want to use yet to make back up seeds, might go the S2 route, not decided yet.

[OGEvilgenius]

I'd guess Chim wouldn't release them if they didn't breed pretty true for some critical traits. But I'd expect a lot of variation none the less.

The stability of any S1 is going to depend on the original source. An IBL S1'd is going to show very little variation. An F1 S1'd is basically an F2 and will be incredibly unstable.

This is gonna be pretty unstable, but like I said, I think will be exhibiting desired traits at a high frequency - just maybe not all at once.

Good lines should give you keeper worthy plants - which for me doesn't mean it's a perfect most amazing specimen the line has to offer, but rather a good representation, if not the best representation - about 1/4, great lines more often. The plants that check all the boxes are exceedingly rare however as you start to look at that 1/4 ratio over multiple attributes and the odds become very long very fast.

[brock1]

Originally Posted by OGEvilgenius

I'd guess Chim wouldn't release them if they didn't breed pretty true for some critical traits. But I'd expect a lot of variation none the less.

The stability of any S1 is going to depend on the original source. An IBL S1'd is going to show very little variation. An F1 S1'd is basically an F2 and will be incredibly unstable.

This is gonna be pretty unstable, but like I said, I think will be exhibiting desired traits at a high frequency - just maybe not all at once.

Good lines should give you keeper worthy plants - which for me doesn't mean it's a perfect most amazing specimen the line has to offer, but rather a good representation, if not the best representation - about 1/4, great lines more often. The plants that check all the boxes are exceedingly rare however as you start to look at that 1/4 ratio over multiple attributes and the odds become very long very fast.

S1 stands for selfed one meaning breeding with 1 plant to bottleneck trates more then a F2 fem would. Breeders need to labble Thiers strains properly and stop lableing every female line as a s1 population it's wrong. It's not right to labble like this and confusing to the consumer. Gsc isn't going to be stable from a F2 fem seed line or s1 but the S1 would be more stable then a F2 fem. Bloody confusing stuff breeding without the actual breeders explaining Thiers breeding wrong in the first place. I trust these are actually a s1 and not a F? Fem? Biggest breeders secret is most lie half don't know what their doing and a very small % like chim know what they are doing and should be correcting others of their mistakes. Poor strain labeling leads to poor strain preservation later. A s1 from a F1 will be more stable than a f1 x f1 fem whitch is basically a f2 population in female expressing only form. A s1 use's only 1 plant for both parents so it will only have half the genetic combinations of a f2 fem.

[HidingInTheHaze]

If GSC produced near replica's when selfed they'd be sold by just about everyone by now. Most people that have selfed GSC have said the produce a lot of hermis, and plants that are not like the mother. Chimera is not the first guy to try this, and the method he would have used would be the same methods everyone else has used so I wouldn't expect a miracle here. You might get lucky, but be prepared for many duds as the success of a selfed seeds relies on the true breeding quality of the mother, GSC is known to not breed very true, this is why the many hybrids that have been created with it produce off spring that are all over the place.

[deadlung]

I'm looking forward to seeing what people get outta these 300 beans

[Chimera]

Originally Posted by deadlung

Im wondering what are the chances of getting a plant that is higher yielding but just as strong as the GSC cut that was used. Like a OGKB 2.0 ? lol

Pretty low, this cookies cut doesn't have the genes for big flowers, and since like x like beggets like.. it's a pretty big stretch thinking that you are going to find some beefy plants from this. That's never been what she is reported to be.

Originally Posted by deadlung

I've never grown S1's ... I have always thought S1 seeds would be near replicas of the mother, but I would also think there could and should be variance due to hidden traits/ genes...

S1 seeds are a reshuffling of the genes of the parental plant, so the S1 is an assessment of the true-breeding nature of the parental clone... I've written this here probably a dozen times.

Originally Posted by HidingInTheHaze

If GSC produced near replica's when selfed they'd be sold by just about everyone by now. Most people that have selfed GSC have said the produce a lot of hermis, and plants that are not like the mother. Chimera is not the first guy to try this, and the method he would have used would be the same methods everyone else has used so I wouldn't expect a miracle here. You might get lucky, but be prepared for many duds as the success of a selfed seeds relies on the true breeding quality of the mother, GSC is known to not breed very true, this is why the many hybrids that have been created with it produce off spring that are all over the place.

That's all well and dandy, but again your assumption being that I have used the same cut as everybody else and the same methods as everybody else. It's well documented there are many cookies cuttings in CA, as discussed in another thread here. How many cookies selfs have any of the commenters in this thread made or grown?

I've been pretty upfront stating these are a segregating selfed population. Selfed seeds go well beyond the 'value of the true-breeding nature' of a parent. This is a very accurate shuffle, this is were you find the new combinations that are homozygous, even if the original was an F1.

I put out seed releases that have what are in my estimation important traits of interest- as a breeder, since that is my perspective. These populations are what I work with, a few got a look at a slice of my world. These aren't necessarily useful for a production grower, but it's not my job to decide what genes work for you in your situation, that's YOUR job. If any grower wants to try these, why does anyone feel the need to comment?

Commercial tomato growers pick production plants and people that are interested in breeding or working with low yielding heirloom varietals that have unique flavours or fruit phenotypes, or those that collect unique germplasm, purchase and grow Black Krim, Cherokee Purple, or San Marzano varietals, not beefsteak. Connoisseurs don't care if plants produce pounds though, people just want to try something unique and verified.

As far as intersex goes, I have never seen this plant produce a staminate flower- that's not to say you won't see a staminate flower- hidden tendencies are amplified in selfs, which I expect clients to understand when choosing to grow selfed populations- it's part of the trade off that one accepts in acquiring seeds that are that much more true breeding - again, 50% increase in homozygosity across all loci) than the parental.

These were described exactly as they are; a true S1 segregating generation of this clone that shows an accurately described chemical phenotype. If you understand genetics, you'll note that there will be a 50% increase in homozygosity at every locus in this population. 6 seeds will be of little value in making parental selections or improvements, however you'll likely find a nice plant to grow to smoke if you aren't breeding.

There are many clues on the value of these from the parental if you know how to read it, and again if you understand genetics it's clear that the terpene profile is at least dominant or fixed in this population, meaning many plants with similar profiles are going to emerge in this S1 despite the claims from some that are telling you they are going to be all over the place. You know that the genes in this plant are expressed in the parental, so it's obvious that they are also going to be present at 3:1 in the progeny, per locus.

I've already got a full tray of these in the ground at a couple of feet high, and am well into the look-see into this family and a whole series of outcrosses, so it is surprising to me to see people that have zero experience with this clone or selfed generation of it telling you how they are going to grow, based on their speculation of reading forums and little else... but I guess that's what you get with working with plants with hyped names - people make up their minds for or against based on assumptions. This is the internet after all!

I'm really looking forward to seeing the results of the very few of these in your gardens as well, being a very different environment to where mine are plugged.

For those that partook, enjoy! For those on the sidelines, let's not decide on the outcome before the seeds hit the soil, unless you have some personal experience to share?

[OGEvilgenius]

Originally Posted by Chimera

Pretty low, this cookies cut doesn't have the genes for big flowers, and since like x like beggets like.. it's a pretty big stretch thinking that you are going to find some beefy plants from this. That's never been what she is reported to be.



S1 seeds are a reshuffling of the genes of the parental plant, so the S1 is an assessment of the true-breeding nature of the parental clone... I've written this here probably a dozen times.





That's all well and dandy, but again your assumption being that I have used the same cut as everybody else and the same methods as everybody else. It's well documented there are many cookies cuttings in CA, as discussed in another thread here. How many cookies selfs have any of the commenters in this thread made or grown?

I've been pretty upfront stating these are a segregating selfed population. Selfed seeds go well beyond the 'value of the true-breeding nature' of a parent. This is a very accurate shuffle, this is were you find the new combinations that are homozygous, even if the original was an F1.

I put out seed releases that have what are in my estimation important traits of interest- as a breeder, since that is my perspective. These populations are what I work with, a few got a look at a slice of my world. These aren't necessarily useful for a production grower, but it's not my job to decide what genes work for you in your situation, that's YOUR job. If any grower wants to try these, why does anyone feel the need to comment?

Commercial tomato growers pick production plants and people that are interested in breeding or working with low yielding heirloom varietals that have unique flavours or fruit phenotypes, or those that collect unique germplasm, purchase and grow Black Krim, Cherokee Purple, or San Marzano varietals, not beefsteak. Connoisseurs don't care if plants produce pounds though, people just want to try something unique and verified.

As far as intersex goes, I have never seen this plant produce a staminate flower- that's not to say you won't see a staminate flower- hidden tendencies are amplified in selfs, which I expect clients to understand when choosing to grow selfed populations- it's part of the trade off that one accepts in acquiring seeds that are that much more true breeding - again, 50% increase in homozygosity across all loci) than the parental.

These were described exactly as they are; a true S1 segregating generation of this clone that shows an accurately described chemical phenotype. If you understand genetics, you'll note that there will be a 50% increase in homozygosity at every locus in this population. 6 seeds will be of little value in making parental selections or improvements, however you'll likely find a nice plant to grow to smoke if you aren't breeding.

There are many clues on the value of these from the parental if you know how to read it, and again if you understand genetics it's clear that the terpene profile is at least dominant or fixed in this population, meaning many plants with similar profiles are going to emerge in this S1 despite the claims from some that are telling you they are going to be all over the place. You know that the genes in this plant are expressed in the parental, so it's obvious that they are also going to be present at 3:1 in the progeny, per locus.

I've already got a full tray of these in the ground at a couple of feet high, and am well into the look-see into this family and a whole series of outcrosses, so it is surprising to me to see people that have zero experience with this clone or selfed generation of it telling you how they are going to grow, based on their speculation of reading forums and little else... but I guess that's what you get with working with plants with hyped names - people make up their minds for or against based on assumptions. This is the internet after all!

I'm really looking forward to seeing the results of the very few of these in your gardens as well, being a very different environment to where mine are plugged.

For those that partook, enjoy! For those on the sidelines, let's not decide on the outcome before the seeds hit the soil, unless you have some personal experience to share?

Thanks for the reply. This sounds like what I expected. I look forward to growing these out in the fall. I'll let you know how they turn out as I'm sure it will be helpful to know for your own research into the line and what it brings to the table.

[HidingInTheHaze]

Originally Posted by Chimera

That's all well and dandy, but again your assumption being that I have used the same cut as everybody else and the same methods as everybody else. It's well documented there are many cookies cuttings in CA, as discussed in another thread here. How many cookies selfs have any of the commenters in this thread made or grown?
?

Lets not play games here Chimera, you and I both know there is the original forum and perhaps the thin mint that people consider real cookies. You wont show pictures, which is a little suspect to begin with, but kets not twist years of documentation around to make it see as though you have something that is exclusive to you and all the others are "fake". Show it, there's enough experts here on the subject that have been playing with cookies for years now that can tell you what it is.