Yellowing top leaves - only some plants- ebb buckets Help please

Alpha Phase · Jul 10, 2015

Hey yall.

So I have a issue with a grow going on and it has been literally driving me crazy because I can't figure it out.

Here's my setup that currently has some plants yellowing at the top.

4x8 tent
1000w and 600w hps @ 23" above canopy
Aircooled hoods
10 ebb buckets
Using maxibloom nutes and calmag
PH 5.8-6
1200ppm
Rockwool croutons medium
Flooding 2x a day

If I missed something let me know

The issue started a couple weeks ago when I noticed a fan leaf that looked funky. I figured it wasn't any big deal. Then it spread quite rapidly. I'm 5 full weeks into flowering. The issue basically is under the 1000w. Most of the plant matter under the 600w is fine. All plants get the same water and nutes. I think I can rule over watering out since the plants under the 600w are fine. The light isn't too close imo. I did not use grow nutes I don't believe for the stretch, maybe this is the issue? But if so, wouldn't all the plants have this problem? The bud development is great, which makes no sense. I did notice some prematurely yellowing lower leaves that was definitely nitrogen Def, but not many. All these leaves are yellow at the top. And getting yellowed. The petioles are purple. As I said, most of the canopy under the 600w is fine.

Can someone give me some insight on what may be going on here? This has me at my wits end! I mean, the buds are fine, but that confuses me even more! Please help! Thank you in advance

Alpha Phase · Jul 10, 2015

Here is what the affected area leaves look like. Anyone? This is probably the first time this had happened lol

Here is a picture of the plants when they were in early flower so you can see the decline. If no one knows, I don't blame you. We're all minions in this unexplained world. But if you're some jedi that knows, please share the force. Remember, all plants share the same res. Some are unaffected. It can't be the light distance as it's been the same distance for the grow and they all were perfect. Is it root aphids? I've never had bugs so I am bug stuoid
. but I've recently found something that looked like a gnat. I just harvested another tray in the same room and tore the roots up looking for crabs and saw none. Just a couple of fliers. All the plants in the other tray had no issues..if this info matters.

Alpha Phase · Jul 10, 2015

The suspected gnat /aphid. Not sure which because I've never dealt with them besides mites a few times and thrips once. It's not either of those.

Alpha Phase · Jul 10, 2015

My only thought is the plants under the 1000w are using more nutes due to the more lumens, but I don't think that would be as serious. If it was bugs, wouldn't they be in the smaller plants under the 600w? Wtf!! This is all the info I have. If anyone sees this thread, man up and give some opinions

good day

Mikell · Jul 10, 2015

Fungus gnat.

Not sure what you other issue is, but if you stand back further when taking pictures it will help

Alpha Phase · Jul 10, 2015

Thank God it's not a root aphid! Thanks mikell. I wish I could stand back further for pictures but my back is at the wall because of how the room is setup for the exhaust, there is only a small walkway between the tent and wall. Well shit, I'm all out of ideas, I as kind of hoping it was aphids even though I read they are the worst of the worst, but I read they can give plants mystery deficiency. I would also say it's something to do with the light but it's the same light I've used for a few runs and this run has been the furthest away from the canopy that I've used it at. Ugh

Catatafish · Jul 10, 2015

Are the buds doing the same thing, yellowing as well only at the tops and look normal a few nodes down?

Any "burnt" tips on the ends of the calyx on those top buds that may be yellowing?

Alpha Phase · Jul 10, 2015

I think the sugar leaves are still pretty green and I'm pretty sure under the canopy is still pretty green except for a random "normal" yellow leaf here and there, I'll get some closer pics of the tops and check the calyx, give me a little while and I'll be back, the lights are off so the pictures should be better

Ziggaro · Jul 10, 2015

Pretty sure it's your light.. definitely is not from bugs. Also perhaps iron lockout from the constant high P levels. Have had similar probe in the past.
Try moving the light up a couple inches. Plants seem more sensitive to heat from the light further into flower so I gradually raise mine.

Alpha Phase · Jul 10, 2015

Here's some more pics, I'll try to get some more tonight when the light comes back on.

It seems the yellowing is really sporadic now a couple plants on the outside perimeter are yellowing mid canopy, the sugar leaves appear lighter green here and there but normal on other plants and the calyx do not seem to be affected.

I'll raise the light up a few inches tonight.

Could this be root rot? The plants are in smart pots so I can't check the roots

Alpha Phase · Jul 10, 2015

Alpha Phase · Jul 10, 2015

Hmm, after bringing a leaf inside and checking it out under normal lighting, it appears lime green rather than yellow. Hps light makes things deceiving and taking pictures in a pitch black room made it look more yellow.

Here's a leaf under regular lighting, the petiol is Hella purple

Edit: I didn't realize I already uploaded that picture, sorry.

Catatafish · Jul 11, 2015

Im with zig. As much as i hate to say it, as i have avoided it for a long time thinking my temps are good. I think its something with the light even though they are in ok temps. Either too intense(?) or causing some else to happen to it. Especially since your 6 is fine. On the one pic you can see its mainly under the center of the 1k and the outskirts are mostly ok.

I have had a similar issue the last two runs myself. You are not far enough in to see the calyx burns yet, give it another 2-3 weeks. Hopefully you dont get em

Im running my hood open at 36" now. Previously i would let it get to about 24" before raising them. Even though my temps are ~80f right under hotspot, this is where the problem always shows, in center area of light. My outskirt plants are always the best last 2 runs, as in least affected.

Funny thing is the same plant will exhibit this problem on 2-3 colas/limbs under light but not the limbs on the outside of direct light. I would think nute problem would effect entire area (top, bottom, etc..) of ALL limbs, not just the ones under more intense light?

I dont know... thats what im rollling with for myself this time. Staying on top of 36" the entire time, made a new pulley system so i dont get too lazy. Im no expert by any means, I was hoping to click here and find the answer shown

Mikell · Jul 11, 2015

Alpha Phase said:
Thank God it's not a root aphid! Thanks mikell. I wish I could stand back further for pictures but my back is at the wall because of how the room is setup for the exhaust, there is only a small walkway between the tent and wall. Well shit, I'm all out of ideas, I as kind of hoping it was aphids even though I read they are the worst of the worst, but I read they can give plants mystery deficiency. I would also say it's something to do with the light but it's the same light I've used for a few runs and this run has been the furthest away from the canopy that I've used it at. Ugh

Hehe I was ragging your chain, up close is better

Both even more so.

Granger2 · Jul 11, 2015

You've got the 600 at the same height as the 1000, and the plants under the 1000 are having the problems, right? I'd run the 600 no lower than 18-20", and the 1000 no lower than 28". In the last 3 weeks, I'd raise them even higher. Catafish in on to something. Last crop I ran my 600s higher than I ever have and got great results.

That flyer has/had a pointed ass. It's a Fungus Gnat as Mikell said. RAs have a more blunt wider ass with 2 tailpipes. Rest easy. Good luck. -granger

Catatafish · Jul 11, 2015

I have been trying to do as granger says and get higher at the end of cycle....problem is 8' ceilings suck balls. I could throw the math up if needed but keeping 36" at last couple weeks is about next to impossible in my setup. I have been bending and tying off to stakes this time as well to try to keep short. I have scrogged in past but its more work than im able to commit to at this point in time.

Wish i could throw my eballast back in and drop the power at the end of a cycle but they talk to the whole neighborhood which i cant have

Id like to test one of those 600/750 gav's to see if they are truly rfi free.

Alpha Phase · Jul 11, 2015

Very helpful info guys, much appreciated!!

The 600w I have at about 18" and the 1000w I had at 23" but I just raised it to 28". I hate 8 ft ceilings too, mine are 8' I think, but the tent height is only 6.5" (it's rough, but I don't want to have to drill any holes to hang lights ect because my landlord is cool and I have too much respect for others property since I'm just renting at the moment

) soon I hope to have 10f ceilings and not have to worry about height, grow dreaming lol

I'm still running magnetic ballast, they are just so easy to fix and don't need to be fixed often. Cheap as hell too! My buddy runs gavita and I don't think he has any interference with his ballasts. The DE should be good to go on that.

Stoked I don't have aphids, I went out and bought Bayer just in case and was going to start treating the veg room as a prevention, but glad I don't have to use anything now.

You know, I've never run this 1000w next to another light before, and before I've never had a problem like this, but it is a new bulb and I replaced the capacitor in the ballast as well, that and the 600w light adding to things probably is the problem some how, so freaking wierd though because my buddy runs his gravity 1000w like 2 feet above his plants and he has a bunch of them and no problems, but his room is sealed so maybe it has to do with not enough co2 and too much light or something. Next grow I'll be growing the exact same setup with the same strain but I'll start the lights at 30" to be safe

Thanks again yall!!

Catatafish · Jul 11, 2015

What hood you using on the 1k?

I have co2 so i dont think its that.

Id love to know how they get that close to canopy. I can keep it cool at that height but i still have other issues so i have all but given up trying.

Alpha Phase · Jul 12, 2015

The hood I have with my 1k bulb is a really small hood. I can't remember the size but I think it is an extra sun or something, really small. The hood on my 600w is an older yield master I believe. I was using yield master 2 hoods until the Glass had a spontaneous explosion in my hand and scared the shit out of me lol. Seems finding the glass to replace it is a bitch and the hydro store seems to not have their shit together because after a month on pre-order it still wasn't in so I gave up and swapped the hoods.

I've run my 1000w at 17" last run and killed it (same hood and light, no issues) but it was not beside another light, it was in a 5x5 tent as I usually use, but this tent is a small 4x8, basically a 3.5x7. It could be that the light spread is so damn confined in this tent and that's why I'm having issues, the 5x5 was a true 5x5 so the light had much more space before it got reflected. But back in the day I used to use 1000w sealed 3.5x7 foot rooms with 6' ceilings and had the light 12" above. That's why this is so confusing! It could be as simple as the hood light spread and cubic foot of the space it's being used. Beats the hell out of me

i always thought lighting was lighting, but it seems there is so much more to it

My buddies 1000w de is a wider style reflector, if that's that one you're talking about. The smaller size DE reflector he said wasn't as good

Hey, I might start a thread on my next question, but maybe someone here has some info on this. I'd like to flower in a 4x4 flood tray using #2 smart pots filled with hydroton. Any info on this? Do smart pots and hydroton work well? I vegged some gdp in 5" net pots and I'd like to place them in the smart pots in two weeks with hydroton and flower them out but I've only used smart pots one time and it was With rockwool mini cubes, and though it came out OK, I don't like how much salt and water they hold.

Alpha Phase · Jul 17, 2015

I'm starting to think the yellowing is a disease inside the plants itself. After checking the plants out close again, there are branches directly under the light that are healthy ND green while a branch right next to it on the same plant is yellow and sickly. It can't be watering problems or light issues now I wouldn't think. I'm going to harvest them at 8 weeks and try again. The clones I got may have had a systemic issue or something so I'm going to try my own clones and if something isn't right couple weeks onto flower, I'll chop them and pull the strain for now.

Weirdest shit ever.

Yellowing top leaves - only some plants- ebb buckets Help please

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