Solvent tank psi higher than normal.

Slablife · May 29, 2015

Quick question. After doing a few runs i noticed my solvent tank psi is about 5 psi higher than my large tank which is a 50 pound bbq style cylinder from praxair with roughly 20 pounds of butane in it, which my butane came in.

Its around 20 psi in my 6" x 12" spool style solvent tank which only has around 2.25 pounds of butane in it.

My 50 pound tank is about 15 psi

Did i get atmosphere in my tank?

If so, what is the best method for removing it.

Should i just chill the tank to zero psi and open the top cap and dump it out in the dirt?

snake11 · May 29, 2015

Spools are not good to use for solvent tanks. That is way too small to use as a recovery cylinder too. Get a recovery cylinder designed for hvac or one of the nice new stainless ones. They are designed for much higher pressure then sanitary spools.

Slablife · May 29, 2015

snake11 said:
Spools are not good to use for solvent tanks. That is way too small to use as a recovery cylinder too. Get a recovery cylinder designed for hvac or one of the nice new stainless ones. They are designed for much higher pressure then sanitary spools.

Im only running 2.5 pounds max in it and it works pretty good as a recovery tank.

I have some of those mastercool cylinders but i can not get them clean enough for my liking so i went with an all stainless spool.

Im not sure how a all stainless cylinder with a 3" tri clamp top be different than what im using. I have looked into the best value vacs tanks as well as the ones from James up in seattle and they are all made in china from the same pipe fitting company as the spools. They just hold more solvent and are dot approved. I run passive so i dont need to run 10 pounds of butane. Im not into it for production, just personal. My setup works great. Its a passive lil terpp that grey wolf designed. im even using a spool way oversized for my solvent storage just because it works better as a recovery tank because it has more surface area.

My original question was, do you know how to remove atmosphere, not bash my machine and recommend HVAC tanks. In my opinion the HVAC stuff isnt up to par with the quality im looking for so i went another route.

Anyone have any input on weather my solvent is possibly contaminated. I read that atmosphere can contaminate the solvent and makes it more acidic which can break down the gaskets faster and possibly rust the inside of the tank and put that into the oil.

BrainChild · May 29, 2015

Wouldn't differently shaped vessels made from different materials have different pressure tolerances? What temp was your tank when at that psi? Using cans, blended gas or n-tane? Are you vacuuming atmosphere from the system before running? And the hoses before recovering?

My spool tank is 6x6 and I've been keeping 2 lbs in it. Outside in the increasing heat, I've seen it hit way higher than 20 psi. I'm using canned Lucienne butane at the moment, which is going to have a higher vapor pressure than something like n-tane. I had it maxed out with around 2.7 lbs but just don't need that much solvent when running my ~200 grams runs, so been keeping round 2 lbs in the tank. The other day my tank was around 50 psi on a pretty hot day, and I cooled it to around 5-10psi in around 20 mins on dry ice.

So depends how you answer my 1st questions, hard to say without more info.

But if you did have air in the tank, then crack it open just enough to let the air out. Definitely want to keep air out of the system, for a few reasons...

I'm liking my spool tank. I have an HVAC tank that's pretty dirty too, I'm going to take a day to clean it soon. But I can pack up round 200 grams of nug, extract, passively recover the solvent to the spool tank and pour out 30-50 grams of oil for purging in about 1.5 hr. I'm completely fine with that. But I do aim to get that time down :biggrin:

GratefulOne · May 29, 2015

Slablife said:
Im not sure how a all stainless cylinder with a 3" tri clamp top be different than what im using. I have looked into the best value vacs tanks as well as the ones from James up in seattle and they are all made in china from the same pipe fitting company as the spools. They just hold more solvent and are dot approved. I run passive so i dont need to run 10 pounds of butane.

The DOT approved tanks DO NOT have tri-clamp connections. Spool tanks made with tri-clamps are not suitable for storage or transportation.

You can get steel tanks clean.

All of your questions are covered in great details in the threads. If you are asking how to burp air from a tank then PLEASE take the time to get up to speed. This stuff is dangerous without basic knowledge. If you are asking questions of this level your knowledge is no where ready if you have a problem and need to think quick.

Not trying to be mean- trying to be the friend who will say what you need to hear.

Slablife · May 29, 2015

BrainChild said:
Wouldn't differently shaped vessels made from different materials have different pressure tolerances? What temp was your tank when at that psi? Using cans, blended gas or n-tane? Are you vacuuming atmosphere from the system before running? And the hoses before recovering?

My spool tank is 6x6 and I've been keeping 2 lbs in it. Outside in the increasing heat, I've seen it hit way higher than 20 psi. I'm using canned Lucienne butane at the moment, which is going to have a higher vapor pressure than something like n-tane. I had it maxed out with around 2.7 lbs but just don't need that much solvent when running my ~200 grams runs, so been keeping round 2 lbs in the tank. The other day my tank was around 50 psi on a pretty hot day, and I cooled it to around 5-10psi in around 20 mins on dry ice.

So depends how you answer my 1st questions, hard to say without more info.

But if you did have air in the tank, I'd chill it down on dry ice and then crack it open just enough to let the air out. Definitely want to keep air out of the system, for a few reasons...

I'm liking my spool tank. I have an HVAC tank that's pretty dirty too, I'm going to take a day to clean it soon. But I can pack up round 200 grams of nug, extract, passively recover the solvent to the spool tank and pour out 30-50 grams of oil for purging in about 1.5 hr. I'm completely fine with that. But I do aim to get that time down

Sounds like we run very similar systems. I use N butane from praxair and it comes in a 50 pound tank.

I guess that 20 psi isnt very high its just 5 psi higher than the 50 pound tank. the outside temp was about 80*

I also run around 100 grams maybe more and have the same turnaround as you, about 1.5 to 2 hours from start to finish.

Slablife · May 29, 2015

GratefulOne said:
The DOT approved tanks DO NOT have tri-clamp connections. Spool tanks made with tri-clamps are not suitable for storage or transportation.

You can get steel tanks clean.

All of your questions are covered in great details in the threads. If you are asking how to burp air from a tank then PLEASE take the time to get up to speed. This stuff is dangerous without basic knowledge. If you are asking questions of this level your knowledge is no where ready if you have a problem and need to think quick.

Not trying to be mean- trying to be the friend who will say what you need to hear.

Sorry, i guess i was referring to the new stainless LP tanks that best value vacs is pre selling. They do have a 3" triclamp lid with dip tube. http://www.bestvaluevacs.com/30lp-ss.html

"304 Grade Stainless Steel 30LB welded tank with a Tare weight of 16Lbs. It will hold 18Lbs of Solvent. Includes a 3" triclamp with a vapor port, liquid port, pressure gauge and 400psi blow off valve."

The tanks from the dude in seattle look like the pic i uploaded

and have a 4" tri clamp lid.

BTW you were not being mean. I have a pretty good understanding of my extractor which is why i noticed a slight rise in psi. I think im doing it right, from what i have read and what other have help me understand along the way. Ive had no problems running it, it makes great oil. I just run it passive because im not into pumps and do not have a "lab" to extract on that level so im cool with my 30 grams of oil per run.

GratefulOne · May 30, 2015

To meet NFPA and other required standards for storage the tank will need to be able to deal with a fire without exploding. A tri-clamp gasket will melt and allow a catastrophic release if the tank is holding butane or propane.

A proper storage tank has a valve that bleeds off the gas a little at a time. During a fire the gas makes an impressive flame thrower but it does not explode.

To meet NFPA standards all gas other than the amount required for processing should be stored in a proper tank all the time. In addition a check valve is added to the input side of the tank. An alarm responding cut-off is placed on the output side of the tank. This way if a fire starts the operator is able to run knowing the tank will "shut off" and the safety valve will work during a fire. If you plan to transport the tank with flammables a DOT certified tank will also be required.

Cls is going to have a difficult period and accidents until guys understand the standards are needed for a reason. Figuring it out as you go is not very safe.

Jhhnn · May 30, 2015

Extracts aren't my thing, but HVAC techs have the same problem, air in the bottle. I did that job for years.

Take the tank outdoors, away from any source of ignition. Burp it. Set it up to dispense gas, not liquid, pop the valve open a good bit, count 1,2,3. Close valve.

Air won't condense except at cryogenic temps, so virtually all the air is in gaseous form & the rapidly evaporating butane or refrigerant will push it out of the bottle.

Given the nature of the source material, air in the recovery bottle is inevitable.

Slablife · May 30, 2015

Thanks for all the input people.

Gray Wolf · May 30, 2015

Slablife said:
Im only running 2.5 pounds max in it and it works pretty good as a recovery tank.

I have some of those mastercool cylinders but i can not get them clean enough for my liking so i went with an all stainless spool.

Im not sure how a all stainless cylinder with a 3" tri clamp top be different than what im using. I have looked into the best value vacs tanks as well as the ones from James up in seattle and they are all made in china from the same pipe fitting company as the spools. They just hold more solvent and are dot approved. I run passive so i dont need to run 10 pounds of butane. Im not into it for production, just personal. My setup works great. Its a passive lil terpp that grey wolf designed. im even using a spool way oversized for my solvent storage just because it works better as a recovery tank because it has more surface area.

My original question was, do you know how to remove atmosphere, not bash my machine and recommend HVAC tanks. In my opinion the HVAC stuff isnt up to par with the quality im looking for so i went another route.

Anyone have any input on weather my solvent is possibly contaminated. I read that atmosphere can contaminate the solvent and makes it more acidic which can break down the gaskets faster and possibly rust the inside of the tank and put that into the oil.

If you let your system sit for a couple hours, the atmosphere will float on top of your gas and if you crack your vent valve, it will be forced out before the butane.

As far as atmosphere contaminating the butane, it would depend a whole lot on the atmosphere, but if it is the one we are typically breathing, it has no profound affect on the butane other than the presence of oxygen. In my experience, retained atmosphere runs up the tank pressure and slows things down, but it is water that degrades your extracts.

Slablife · May 30, 2015

Gray Wolf said:
If you let your system sit for a couple hours, the atmosphere will float on top of your gas and if you crack your vent valve, it will be forced out before the butane.

As far as atmosphere contaminating the butane, it would depend a whole lot on the atmosphere, but if it is the one we are typically breathing, it has no profound affect on the butane other than the presence of oxygen. In my experience, retained atmosphere runs up the tank pressure and slows things down, but it is water that degrades your extracts.

Thank you grey wolf. I read on a facebook cls group that a girl from denver that apparently knows whats up said,

"Murphy Murri - if there is air in your tank, you want to ditch the gas anyway, it's contaminated. So I've always just lived by emptying my solvent tank, burning off the bad gas and refilling under vacuum.
May 28 at 8:50pm

Dave Sorensen - What happens to your product if your gas is contaminated and you don't realize it, keep running with it?
Yesterday at 12:51am

Murphy Murri Your oil will contain contaminants. Usually rust and rubber. Contaminated butane is more acidic and will dissolve buna slowly, eventually could cause your tank to start leaking too."

Does this sound correct?

Jhhnn · May 30, 2015

food grade driers are available for compressed air. I'd check with the manufacturer before using them with butane.

There may even be food grade wet eyes like those used in refrigeration/ hvac to tell you if your solvent has moisture in it, dunno.

BrainChild · May 30, 2015

Slablife said:
Thank you grey wolf. I read on a facebook cls group that a girl from denver that apparently knows whats up said,

"Murphy Murri - if there is air in your tank, you want to ditch the gas anyway, it's contaminated. So I've always just lived by emptying my solvent tank, burning off the bad gas and refilling under vacuum.
May 28 at 8:50pm

Dave Sorensen - What happens to your product if your gas is contaminated and you don't realize it, keep running with it?
Yesterday at 12:51am

Murphy Murri Your oil will contain contaminants. Usually rust and rubber. Contaminated butane is more acidic and will dissolve buna slowly, eventually could cause your tank to start leaking too."

Does this sound correct?

^sounds like serious bro-science....or in this case sista-science? :laughing:

stainless steel doesn't easily corrode, so perhaps they are referring to the carbon steel HVAC tanks. And buna isn't a great gasket material for our process anyways...

Gray Wolf · May 30, 2015

Slablife said:
Thank you grey wolf. I read on a facebook cls group that a girl from denver that apparently knows whats up said,

"Murphy Murri - if there is air in your tank, you want to ditch the gas anyway, it's contaminated. So I've always just lived by emptying my solvent tank, burning off the bad gas and refilling under vacuum.
May 28 at 8:50pm

Dave Sorensen - What happens to your product if your gas is contaminated and you don't realize it, keep running with it?
Yesterday at 12:51am

Murphy Murri Your oil will contain contaminants. Usually rust and rubber. Contaminated butane is more acidic and will dissolve buna slowly, eventually could cause your tank to start leaking too."

Does this sound correct?

No, it doesn't. She sounds misled.

If you let water set in your carbon steel tank, it can rust it. The water will end up being rusty water and if it gets deep enough for your dip tube to reach it, you can inject it into your extraction.

That is why we recommend venting any accumulated water every day at start up, and using an inline filter drier.

Butane has a dielectric constant of about 1.34, so unless something like sulfur is in the butane, there isn't anything to turn acidic.

Butane and Buna are rated as excellent together, but we typically use Viton or PTFE because we clean with alcohol.

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Solvent tank psi higher than normal.

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