NEED COCO MASTER ADVICE PLEASE PH PROBLEM

jack mehaulf · Apr 27, 2015

Hi all,
I've had this coCo ph problem for awhile, first let me say I have looked everywhere and talked to people in person read a few forums, thought about it and came to my own conclusions, whatever I have tried a few things,

OK here is my grow set up and problems ,

.1000w dim, switch ballast 8 inch cool tube currently on mh 400w
.5x5 tent,
8 inch max fan pro series 780 something cfm,
.RO water
.9 plants in about 3Rd week of veg (they are off to a slow start I feel because of my problem and being new to coco)
.5 gal black pots filled with coco and a couple scoops of perlite
I flushed it cleaned it to drop ec,

They sit in a flour tray with a hole on one side, my tent sits on a raised roundation and has a small amount of grade about a inch of fall over there 5 feet, and that drain s into a pan I have under the foundation and gets pumped out,

I first stated in small 4x4 pots and noticed that after I flushed the coco and I gave them a very mild dose of nuts at 5.8
the ph would not go down almost atall the run off was at about 7.0 high 6 , on a scale set up like that with the small pots it was easy to see how rediculous it was to put in the good ph water and get out bullshit, I know the coco alone is at about 6.2 or so,

I'm thinking about changing my nutes... maybe

I'm running general hydro flora nova right now
with floralicious and root start and call mag, I'm feeding every water at about 400 to 700 ppm .6 ec or so 1.0,

And they are surviving but I have noticed some N toxic so I reduced the amount of nova and feed for of the additives and flushed hard,
.. Sorry it's getting long and ramblingg..

ANY HELP IS APPRECIATED
THANKS IN ADVANCED
I'd vee really happy to hear a good solution

jack mehaulf · Apr 27, 2015

I understand I need to get my nutrients down,

My only concern is with the ph,
does anyone have this problem

And I know the run off is not exactly,
but WHEN U DUMPPPPP
5.5 SOLUTION IN A POT AND GET 100 PERCENT RUN OFF OF 6.6 SOMETHING IS OFF
rightt????
I'm thinking about just going organic so they can be healthy and absorb nuts all over the ph board

JamieShoes · Apr 27, 2015

what are you using as pH down Jack?

dutty · Apr 27, 2015

runoff ph?!

runoff ph?!

I hope I've understood your "problem"

you are concerned about your runoff ph? Forget it! Runoff ph doesnt say anything about your ph in the medium. Ive a ph pen with which you can even measure the ph in the medium by putting the pen in it (bluelap ph pen something) and even there i measured crazy things with healthy plants, like ph at 7 and things like that (what maybe resulted from a high nutrient solution ph,i was to lazy that time to correct it after some days)

Ever heard about the cation exchange capacity of coco? Good explained in here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmt9EpiFm1s

you never know what nutrients are kept by the coco or even got absorbed and which nutrients get flushed out. Im not an expert, but i can imagine that different nutrients have different ph. Imagine nitrogen gets flushed out mostly... that would change the ph wouldnt it? Dont know what ph nitrogen is at but i hope you know what i mean. The absorbed oxygen (it surely changes to something else

) that gets flushed out changes the ph too, i think.

In addition, ive always red that, depending on if you use coco with multifeed or like soil, the ph of the water or the coco is important, or: if you use coco like hydro the ph of the water is the ph the roots are mostly in contact with.

That is how i explained all the "dont messure ph runoff" comments for myself after research, which i definitely have red a lot of times.

Another thought: In my dripsystem, the ph rises from 5,8 to 6 alone by getting pumped and dripped through the drippers, because of the oxygen. Flushed through fine coco fibers could rise the ph even more.

Im not a pro, still growing for about 3 years in coco. Dont measure the runoff ph. EC, indeed, is a different thing.

stoned40yrs · Apr 27, 2015

What he say ^^^
What happened is you have upset the cation balance in your coco, that's why your plants are whack. What brand coco? How often have you run just water through the coco? When the cation level is stripped the coco will grab certain things from the nutes thereby denying them to the plant until the cation level is reset. :biggrin:

Miraculous Meds · Apr 27, 2015

When u flush coco its best to use ph balanced nutrients so u leave the cec in check. So start by flushing thru with at least the volume of medium with 1.2ec 5.6ph. So if ur in .5 gal pots then 1 gallon of solution should do per pot. Let it go through its dry cycle but not get too dry. Then start feeding 1.2ec at 5.8ph with a little run off. As long as u don't let the medium dry out too far, then ur plants will have access to fresh nutrient at the correct concentration and ph. Eventually ur run off will prob start to come in check with ur input ph, but it wont matter so much anymore since u have reset the cec and are keeping it freshly changed with frequent waterings.

blueberrydrumz · Apr 27, 2015

hey jack welcome to the board...
yeah like mentioned... DONT WORRY BOUT RUNOFF!!
You just need to know what you put in and a weekly or min bi weekly slurry test
so do a slurry test right now and see what really is up with the coco
no point guessing.. 0.6-1 EC is ok, but like mentioned you probably got the cation balance of the coco out of line now due to flushing to hard.. never flush with 0ppm unless its the end of the cycle
also i wouldnt agree with dutty about EC of runoff... in general runoff has nothing to say
it might give you a indication of whats up but generally speaking its just miss leading!!
do a slurry test.. thats the only thing to focus on

jack mehaulf · Apr 27, 2015

Thanks for the long post, I get what Ur saying
maybe the water is losing oxygen in the coco and coming out a different PH, seems possible

Well thanks everyone,

What do you guys think about getting a coco nutrient line?

Maybe something alittle organic to have better nutrient absorb the across the board?

Ted Mosby · Apr 27, 2015

Is half gallon normal for other coco users? By three weeks of veg I'm root bound in gallon pots so I see the problem as being root bound.

jack mehaulf · Apr 27, 2015

Half gallon of what?
roots ? Thanks for imput btw,

If u mean a half gallon of rooting?
they are in 5 gallon pots and I can see some roots coming out of the bottom holes,
I feel like I need a different nute line up, to get higher tds but less of some nutrients so basically I think more additives will help create a buffer but not jack the plants up on NPK or whatever else they can OD on,
any thoughts?
And also I want to get some benifial bacteria to aid in health roots and nutrient uptake

watts · Apr 28, 2015

The period before the 5 in your 1st post is why he thought you said half gallon.

I recommend 2-3 gallon pots full of 100% coco next time. 5 gallons is a lot for coco. Hydroguard or SM-90 will help your roots.

stoned40yrs · Apr 28, 2015

3rd week of veg and they are already in 5 gal containers of coco, no wonder you have problems.

jack mehaulf · Apr 28, 2015

5 gal pots cause problem? I think not stoned40years,..

Keep condisending statements to yourself

jack mehaulf · Apr 28, 2015

The roots are plenty developed to be in the pots, the minor problems I have, I believe are due to too much care to be honest I need to relax and come to one conclusion at a time, I was conserned with ph and my feeds being to low so I adjusted and adjusted and look for problems and adjust the ppm, whatever I need to do some more reseach and "cut once" I appreciate all input it really helps me consider some different posibilitys after thinking about it. I've decided to
PH my nutrients at 5.6 and feed till I get a good amount of run off,
I'm also going to learn more about the nutrients I'm using to decide how much of what to mix to come up with a well rounded almost perfect diet for them and not be so consernd with run off

Thanks all could have came to that conclusion with you

jack mehaulf · Apr 28, 2015

Also thank you watts I will consider smaller pots,
what do you think the sm90 with do for my coco?
I was considering getting some benificial bacteria

stasis · Apr 28, 2015

Floranova is not at all tailored to coco. Also. if the bottle (esp the gallon or larger) is not shaken to excess, maybe using a small paint mixer (they used to include one taped to the bottle). FN often does not mix fully. People get to the bottom 1/4 and it is dangerously out of whack. Sediments and high ppm matter at the bottom.

If you use a nute line tailored to coco -(the whole line) and follow the destructions, maybe backing off a little on the base nutes until You know how strong they are - you'll do fine.

A weird tip many have found is to use 1/2 and 1/2 RO and bubbled tap. And add calmag, as you already do. try to avoid the use of pH up or down, when possible. Use more base nute to bring down pH, if the ppms are not maxed yet. Bubbled tap to bring it up, if the ppms are not already low.

Never let total ppms of nutrient solution go much above 1K ppms. 20% runoff seems to be the happy zone. Add some perlite, if you aren't already.

Good Luck, My 2c.

Ted Mosby · Apr 28, 2015

The way you typed it out makes it look like you are using .5 gallon pots. I will also agree that being in 5 gallons pots at week 3 of veg is a huge waste. 5 gallon pots in coco and not growing trees is a waste. I've been doing coco for 5 years and never once went beyond a 3 gallon and have pulled as much as 12oz off a single plant. You jumped to a pot far bigger than what your plants were ready for.

You don't need a new nute line you need to develop some patience and experience. Moving to organics would be a complete disaster right off the bat since you seem to think organic means all nutes will be taken in regardless of ph. Stick with what you are doing and just grow and learn. These boards will fill your head with thoughts of what's right and wrong. What's right is what works for you and you haven't spent enough time to know what you're doing let alone wrong or right. Stop overthinking what you're doing and let the plants grow. Going to take your plants a while to fill in that pot and start growing properly again.

stoned40yrs · Apr 28, 2015

jack mehaulf said:
5 gal pots cause problem? I think not stoned40years,..

Keep condisending statements to yourself

People were giving you advice on the assumption you were in .5 or 1/2gal pots. Now that you say you are in huge 5 gal containers with 3 wk veg plants, that's a game changer. You flushed the hell out of them plants and you are only running a 400w. It should only take like a WEEK for them to dry out enough so that you start to treat the problems you have. A LOT of people on here grow great plants in coco with Floranova bloom. You didn't do enough reading about coco before you started. If you had you wouldn't be in 5 gal containers, you'd know about a slurry test, you'd know about how easy and bad it is to overwater before a healthy root mass is established and how bad it can be to flush away the elements coco likes to horde. You are shooting blanks at the problem. You need to let them containers dry out till they are light when you lift them. There is NOTHING you can add to fix this problem right now. Get 50 posts so you can post pictures if you want better help. "Everybodys got a plan- till they get punched in the mouth" Mike Tyson :biggrin:

jack mehaulf · Apr 28, 2015

Sorry stoned40years,
I think I miss understood,

I just realized I did not read some of Ur guys posets!!
fuck I have been researching all day and I totally understand noww.... finally stress relief but Damm

I now realize I have my plants in to large of pots!!
I am really considering transplanting into smaller maybe 3 gal pots!
what do you guys think they are nto totally rooted yet maybe I can shake some coco off and repot in a smaller pot

And start alittle multimate feed system? Or at least onces a day I hear they really respond to that, I dint think I'll be able to do that in my 5z for awhillee...

jack mehaulf · Apr 28, 2015

For the record I did alot of resesrch, I do no what a slurry test is I have heard that u don't need a large pot for coco
But I def. Aggree I should have done more research... I was so eager.... lol
but I appreciate you guys I just need to get my own experience is all..
and I sure as hell am picking up some good experience right now

NEED COCO MASTER ADVICE PLEASE PH PROBLEM

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