Planting directly into the native soil

I'm interested to hear from all those that have planted directly into native soil. any tips? How well did it work for you? Anyone from the northeast specifically? I'm looking to hit that OPOP.

I'm from the (very north) northeast and want to avoid having to carry in soil or water so I am looking at planting on south sides of swamps, wetlands, etc. My native soil looks fertile, dark, and semi-dense. Seems to be a combination of clay and loam. It is very acidic at around 5 ph so I plan on using an auger to turn up a 1x1x1 hole for each plant in a couple of weeks and throwing down some encap quick acting lime to help raise it to 6.5 ph. Then just planting well established 1 foot tall clones directly into the grow. Top feed with some dry nutes and maybe water crystals.

I am a little worried about PH and being able to get it up to 6.5 within just a couple of weeks after liming it. Ive been reading that lime can take many months to change ph. I looked into hydrated lime which is suppose to work faster but heard it can be a little dangerous for the plants. Which is when I found the encap quick lime. It is suppose to work within just a couple weeks.

I've been thinking about packing in 20 gallons or so of perlite to mix between 80 or so holes because my native soil seems a little on the dense side. maybe another 20 gallons of worm castings for some organic matter. However id rather not carry in anything that I dont need to.

Ive also been thinking about sending some to a lab to try and see exactly what is in it as far as nutrients but I do know that the native soil is pretty nutrient rich especially the soil around swamp land.

Hi,
May I ask if you will doing a direct sow or planting established seedlings?

doctor.dank said:

I'm interested to hear from all those that have planted directly into native soil. any tips? How well did it work for you? Anyone from the northeast specifically? I'm looking to hit that OPOP.

I'm from the (very north) northeast and want to avoid having to carry in soil or water so I am looking at planting on south sides of swamps, wetlands, etc. My native soil looks fertile, dark, and semi-dense. Seems to be a combination of clay and loam. It is very acidic at around 5 ph so I plan on using an auger to turn up a 1x1x1 hole for each plant in a couple of weeks and throwing down some encap quick acting lime to help raise it to 6.5 ph. Then just planting well established 1 foot tall clones directly into the grow. Top feed with some dry nutes and maybe water crystals.

I am a little worried about PH and being able to get it up to 6.5 within just a couple of weeks after liming it. Ive been reading that lime can take many months to change ph. I looked into hydrated lime which is suppose to work faster but heard it can be a little dangerous for the plants. Which is when I found the encap quick lime. It is suppose to work within just a couple weeks.

I've been thinking about packing in 20 gallons or so of perlite to mix between 80 or so holes because my native soil seems a little on the dense side. maybe another 20 gallons of worm castings for some organic matter. However id rather not carry in anything that I dont need to.

Ive also been thinking about sending some to a lab to try and see exactly what is in it as far as nutrients but I do know that the native soil is pretty nutrient rich especially the soil around swamp land.

Click to expand...

Make sure to protect against deer, rabbits and other animals I did direct sow like this in a bit of a wetland, they grew fine only for me to find that spot was preferred by a big buck deer and ate them before flowering he rolled on them a bit before he ate them it seemed like, they would have only given me a half oz each at most at their size, getting that head start will help them.

.

I will no doubt be adding dry fertilizer. Im thinking a 10-10-10 chem mix will do the trick. I've done some PH testing on various soil samples and it appears to be naturally between 5 to 5.5 ph which is a little to acidic.

From the research ive done the amount of lime required depends greatly on the type of soil (sand, loam, or clay). I dug some up at prospective spots and I would love to say its a loamy/clay mixture but I'm really thinking its more of just straight clay. I'm going to have to do a soil test and see what exactly its made up of. I'm going to use hydrated lime (quick acting) at probably 30 grams per 1x1x1 hole. In a loam/clay mixture that should bring ph up 1 point.

@Tangiefanatic - I'm going to be placing 12 inch established clones in the ground.

@limeygreen - Very good idea. I do plan on using cages for the first couple of weeks. I assume you are out west? I hear the deer out there get aggressive towards the end of the season so you need to cage the entire season. For us the only issue is the beginning of the season. Once the plants are established and there others vegetation around I've come to find the deer will leave your shit alone.

I didn't take this picture but this is very similar to the soil that I dug up. I want to plant directly into soil like this.

After I break it up and mix in lime of course. What do you guys think? Will the roots be able to penetrate? Should I mix in something to lighten it up such as perlite? I really don't mind bringing out a backpack or two of perlite because it is so light. However two backpacks would be roughly 40 to 50 gallons of perlite. Divided among 90 holes would only be about a half gallon per hole. 1x1x1 is about 6 gallons so it would only be about 10%. I dont know if it is worth the time/effort. I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible.

Hi,
A guerilla grower I used to watch on youtube a couple years ago dropped large numbers of clones with native soil like you are planning on doing. Check out his tutorial videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LREv2INBac
He grew some pretty amazing plants just by tilling the soil real well and then mixing a bunch of 10-10-10 granular fertilizer.
Best of luck!!!!

doctor.dank said:

I will no doubt be adding dry fertilizer. Im thinking a 10-10-10 chem mix will do the trick. I've done some PH testing on various soil samples and it appears to be naturally between 5 to 5.5 ph which is a little to acidic.

From the research ive done the amount of lime required depends greatly on the type of soil (sand, loam, or clay). I dug some up at prospective spots and I would love to say its a loamy/clay mixture but I'm really thinking its more of just straight clay. I'm going to have to do a soil test and see what exactly its made up of. I'm going to use hydrated lime (quick acting) at probably 30 grams per 1x1x1 hole. In a loam/clay mixture that should bring ph up 1 point.

@Tangiefanatic - I'm going to be placing 12 inch established clones in the ground.

@limeygreen - Very good idea. I do plan on using cages for the first couple of weeks. I assume you are out west? I hear the deer out there get aggressive towards the end of the season so you need to cage the entire season. For us the only issue is the beginning of the season. Once the plants are established and there others vegetation around I've come to find the deer will leave your shit alone.

I didn't take this picture but this is very similar to the soil that I dug up. I want to plant directly into soil like this.
View Image
After I break it up and mix in lime of course. What do you guys think? Will the roots be able to penetrate? Should I mix in something to lighten it up such as perlite? I really don't mind bringing out a backpack or two of perlite because it is so light. However two backpacks would be roughly 40 to 50 gallons of perlite. Divided among 90 holes would only be about a half gallon per hole. 1x1x1 is about 6 gallons so it would only be about 10%. I dont know if it is worth the time/effort. I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible.

Click to expand...

I'm northeast as well but not in your country, turned out the buck whitetail liked my spot.

doctor.dank said:

I will no doubt be adding dry fertilizer. Im thinking a 10-10-10 chem mix will do the trick. I've done some PH testing on various soil samples and it appears to be naturally between 5 to 5.5 ph which is a little to acidic.

Click to expand...

How did you go about testing the ph? Just one of those little two-prong soil ph testers?

I plan on doing something similar to you this season in order to speed things up and avoid hauling as much stuff as last season.

My plan for feeding is to gather my ammendments and combine them all and add perlite. Then just spread the amendment combo at the site(s).

thanks for sharing the video. Ill check it out

As far as testing the PH I've tried these soil probe things and didnt seem to get accurate readings. I run coco indoors so I have a good PH meter already. I just dug down 8 inches of soil and mixed it together (soil ph and texture will change based on how deep it is) and then put it into a bowl with some RO water. Turned it basically into a soup and than used the PH meter to test the PH level after a few hours. Might not be 100% accurate but close enough. You can actually look into local universities and they will do soil testing for you. The local university around here does a PH test, most of the macro and micro nutrients as well as the soil composition for like $20 bucks. Got to love slave (college student) labor.

Soil testing would be the most accurate solution to this problem, but quite expensive if you have more than one patch to test. If you did go with testing, I know www.loganlabs.com does it for $20 and you can pay another $10 for an analysis (soil recipe) if you don't know how to do it yourself. It's pretty tricky to DIY so I pay the extra 10 just to be sure.

If you don't feel like testing it, I would just drop some Espoma bio tone plus in there for your fertilizer, and mix perlite or an aeration amendment at 1/3 your soil volume. Top dressing with some compost is a really good idea, and would be highly worth the haul IMO. It could be the difference between harvesting 3 ounces or harvesting a pound.

I'm going to be putting out about 50-90 plants this year in a remote area that would be impossible to haul supplies into (without completely exhausting myself for the season). For these spots I'm planning on digging 5-10 gallon size holes, mixing in native brush/grass/anything that will improve aeration, then dropping a handful of Espoma Bio Tone Plus in there and mixing well. After this I'll drop some cover crop seed on top, which will convert nitrogen found in the air (atmospheric N) into plant available N while I'm gone all season. Finally, I'll plant crops like comfrey (bocking 14) within my plants not only to provide additional camo, but when mid season hits I'll be able to chop leaves off and top dress the nutrient-rich leaves for a "bloom boost" as the synthetic growers tend to call it. These natural methods will only require me to haul in a few bags of cover crop seeds (10 lbs), some comfrey cuttings (2 lbs), and a bag of Espoma which will be the heaviest at around 30 lbs. The hike will be 2 miles or so through the bush, so pushing 50 lbs is the most I can do on one trip.


comfrey bocking 14 - 4 weeks old


Nitrogen fixing legumes (clover) - pick up a bag of Crimson Clover and sprinkle it on top of your soil this year! You'll be amazed at the results... they say legumes are the "lungs" of the soil and it's true; fixing atmospheric N is indeed like breathing in a way


For the set & forget spots, soil quality is everything so find areas that border wetlands for the richest soil. Microbes require water to survive, so moist land next to any type of water way is typically very rich in nature. Plus, since rivers/streams/lakes reside at the lowest part of that said region, mineral-rich run off will make it's way down the hillside and enrich the soil more and more as it gets closer to the bottom.


Lastly, (and something I've only recently learned) - the most fertile ecosystems are grasslands/prairies. The abundance of organic matter that grows and dies back come winter provides the microorganisms an incredible amount of carbon to fuel their activities. The grass decomposes into rich humus, and provides those plants with nutrients in the form of humus for that following spring. Check out this before and after pic I took of the grassland I grew in last year:



The pictures of the decay were taken last week (April)

The pictures of green life were taken on June 1st of last year. So going for the grasslands when looking for potential sites would be a good idea IMO

Hey team microbe thanks for posting you provided a lot of good information one question for you though. how do you go about selecting your swamp/wetlands via google maps/earth? A lot of times I find something that looks promising on google earth but then when you actually get down to the spot you find that its all just swamp land that is too wet to plant and/or the edge is too dense of forest to be able to cut enough trees down to plant 50-100 plants. Do you have any tips and tricks? From the photos you posted it looks very similar to the climate/area I am growing in and I have found a few good spots so far that look similar to yours.

doctor.dank said:

Hey team microbe thanks for posting you provided a lot of good information one question for you though. how do you go about selecting your swamp/wetlands via google maps/earth? A lot of times I find something that looks promising on google earth but then when you actually get down to the spot you find that its all just swamp land that is too wet to plant and/or the edge is too dense of forest to be able to cut enough trees down to plant 50-100 plants. Do you have any tips and tricks? From the photos you posted it looks very similar to the climate/area I am growing in and I have found a few good spots so far that look similar to yours.

Click to expand...

I use a few different tools all at once when marking spots to explore by foot. One is a wetland map that I found by simply searching "google earth wetland map *your state here*". It brings up all different types of wetlands, including mineral wetlands (the best kind to grow in). Once I narrow down those, I'll look for the ones with access by vehicle for hauling in/out supplies/payloads. This one is a double edged sword sometimes though, because anything I can access by car can be accessed by someone else... so I choose wisely here. Railroads are a great alternative to getting deep into the wilderness undetected. I built a rail cart for hauling my soil/supplies in and out on:


Standard gauge is 56.5" so this cart will fit any track with this gauge


I go at dusk when there's just enough light to see, but not enough light for anyone that happens to be nearby to see me




I select the "rail" box under modes of transportation to find all of the railways that travel through remote areas with swamps nearby (It'll be outlined in a bold black line). Then I find the upland of the swamp with the elevation reading on the bottom center of the screen, just move your curser over the terrain and watch the reading to find the highest end of the wetland. This is usually the "safe zone" for when heavy rains fall. It'll also remain fairly wet during the dry season I've noticed. All wetlands are different, but this is the case from my experience. You can also check out the moss on surrounding trees, it'll be on the north side so use that in determining your locations to plant in. Moss that goes up 2'-3' is a red flag, this usually means beavers have dammed up the area and it rises a good amount when it rains. I like finding little streams that are inlets to the swamp, and planting right next to them to prevent watering needs for the season.

It's a real swing in the dark though when you're planting somehwere for the first time. The first year you may plant on the south east end of the swamp, but then come harvest time you realize that "over there" would've been a little better for water purposes, foliage color (for hiding plants from aerial surveillance), or maybe the plants in that area look healthier come October and you want to give it a go over there. Tons of factors come into play, it's crazy when you try to control too much outdoors I've learned. Mother nature is in control, and it's best to abide by her rules and listen to what she has to say before committing a 100 plant patch to a new area. I would throw 50 out there in different spots all scattered abouts, and see which ones do the best as the season progresses. Hope this helped a little bit

Hey thanks for that link to Logan Labs Team microbe I was just going to buy one of those soil test kits for 50 bucks but I rather let the pros handle it.

planting directly in native soil doesn't usually produce like dug and amended holes....yeehaw....

Doc, im in the Northeast also. It really comes down to the native soil. Ive had amazing no til spots in the past. Look for honeysuckle, typically grows in light airy soil and gets quite large. You could grow (10)1/2 pounders in the spot one big honeysuckle takes up, once removed of course. I just bring in pelletized chicken manure or a chem slow release chem and broadcast heavily. Goodluck.