[early_bird]

Originally Posted by Baron Greenback

I don't bother with a cure. I get mine dried with a dehumidifier, takes about 8 days to completely dry (stems snap cleanly and it powders when crushed). This, I believe, captures the most volatile aromatic hydrocarbons and doesn't require months of curing where (as far as I can tell) nothing happens other than the degradation of the thc.

Baron, how dry let you go your weed ?

I made conflictive experiences.
I had a strain (8 Miles High) which was best quite after drying. But i had to add, i let this buds gone quite dry.

Next time i cured Kali Mist quite moisture at about 70 % humidy, quite wet i whould say. I didn´t liked it at the beginning of the cure, somewhat stony and foggy. But after some weeks this stuff went out really good, the high changed a massivly, it wasn´t the same stuff any more.

My theory from this experience is as follows. If you cure your buds at higher moisture you need to cure it for a long time. If you let gone the stuff very dry, 55% humidy for example, it degenerates from now and is at best right after drying.

[mayan]

Hey, Baron, kalbhairav, and early bird! Thanks!

Baron...I couldn't agree more about concentrates. My experience is precisely the same. I don't want to blame the processes - I have not had every extraction method (yet) - but I generally have found it to be exactly as you say - one hit -bingo- and then meh! My current thesis is the methodology almost invariably involves dissipating a good many of the terpenes and flavanoids and who knows what else...leaving it in my mind to often be a generic, homogenized, pasteurized. But that's just me. And maybe you. It's all about the synergy.

It's interesting about curing...The lab I work with states that there's not a huge subsequent change in cannabinoid constituents. The taste is a bit smoother, perhaps and the drier it is the higher the ratio of cannabinoids but basically not a lot of vast difference.

I do sorta disagree about kief though. In my mind, dry sift contains all or almost all the cannabinoids that were present given that it's the trichomes. Thus -to me- it's kinda the royalty of the concentrate set. Builds up tolerance quickly, I think - but otherwise...love it.

[Fantomatico]

Any of you guys ever try rosin? I was never a fan of shatter but rosin I like.

@Early Bird - I dry it until it's completely dry, stem snaps cleanly dry and it crumbles easily, I don't want any stickiness at all. I read a little about burning wet (unseasoned or uncured) wood for my stove and it's not efficient at all. It takes 10 -15% of the wood's energy to get it to temperature and I feel the same about weed, not bone dry and you're wasting it getting it to combustible temperature.
@mayan - It's definitely all about the synergy I looked at the drying side from a chemistry point of view. In my opinion, once the plant is down, botany is over and you're into chemistry. I want to "crystalise" the aromatic hydrocarbons, prevent them disappearing in chains attached to water molecules, so it's very interesting how you mention curing doesn't actually change the concentrations at all (I wonder how expensive this test is? It would be amazingly informative to find out if you could test a flower dried solely by dehumidifier and not cured at all - any chance mayan? If it's really expensive, maybe we can work out some way of me paying you for it?).
I do love a bit of kief, don't get me wrong. It certainly adds a kick to a doobie but as you rightly say, tolerance builds too fast for it to be viable for me. This is one of the many things that confuse me though - if thc is only in the trichomes, how come the holistic effect of the whole flower is far superior for me? Longer lasting, more complex and a lot slower tolerance build up.

[mayan]

Hey all...On a slightly different tangent...but nicely dovetailing with the present discussion - here's some results just received from basic testing on some Ace genetics...Done by one of the few certified labs in this state. Cool -and thought-provoking- stuff...My new focus is on CBGa. It is supposedly the "mom" precursor to both THC and CBD (and who knows what else). I'm wondering whether higher concentrations are indicative of an earlier harvest or whether it is what it is. At any rate, as the "Mom" I wonder whether it actually gives a kick to something like the Malawi x PCK, which is -in my mind- strong as fuck. Although one of the lower in THC. And I'd love to learn more about CBC, as well. So much to learn and absorb. So many tests to run...terpenes, etc. Someday! But in the meantime, this is a yo-way cool place to start. Enjoy!!

Bubba Kush x Hash Plant
THC 1%
CBD 0.2%
CBN <0.1%
THCa 19.5%
CBDa <0.1%
Ä-8 THC <0.1%
CBGa 0.3%
THCv <0.1
CBDv 0.2%
CBC 0.1%
Total 21.3%
Max THC 18.1%
Max CBD 0.2%

Kali China - Line 22
THC 5.3%
CBD <0.1%
CBN <0.1%
THCa 11.3%
CBDa <0.1%
Ä-8 THC <0.1%
CBGa <0.1
THCv <0.1
CBDv <0.1
CBC 0.1%
Total 16.7%
Max THC 15.2%
Max CBD <0.1%

Malawi x PCK
THC 1.1%
CBD 0.2%
CBN <0.1%
THCa 14.4%
CBDa <0.1%
Ä-8 THC <0.1%
CBGa 1.3%
THCv <0.1
CBDv <0.1
CBC 0.1%
Total 17.1%
Max THC 13.7%
Max CBD 0.2%

Malawi Killer x Panama Elite
THC 1.3%
CBD 0.4%
CBN <0.1%
THCa 26.8%
CBDa 0.1%
Ä-8 THC <0.1%
CBGa 0.9%
THCv <0.1
CBDv 0.3%
CBC 0.2%
Total 30%
Max THC 24.8%
Max CBD 0.5%

Zamal-Hash/2nd Pheno
THC 3.2%
CBD <0.1%
CBN <0.1%
THCa 15.9%
CBDa <0.1%
Ä-8 THC <0.1%
CBGa 0.2%
THCv <0.1
CBDv <0.1
CBC 0.1%
Total 19.4%
Max THC 17.1%
Max CBD <0.1%

Finally, here's a Golden Tiger - I separate this out because the sample was snipped 2+ weeks before harvest and I would
anticipate the numbers changing somewhat with the harvested and cured material. Maybe in a couple of months...So, FWIW....

Early Golden Tiger
THC 0.2%
CBD <0.1%
CBN <0.1%
THCa 18.7%
CBDa <0.1%
Ä-8 THC <0.1%
CBGa 0.4%
THCv <0.1
CBDv 0.3%
CBC 0.1%
Total 19.7%
Max THC 16.6%
Max CBD <0.1%

And my good Baron...all excellent points that I am in agreement with. We do have a food dehydrator so we could take a whirl and see what's what. I wonder what you are getting from the whole flower. To push back gently, I can sorta/kinda almost see the point of doing long soaks in ETOH, or whatever, to squeeze every chlorophyllic, lipid, wax, whatever, to go for the synergy with extracts like oil -although, I remain unconvinced. I'm not aware of anything in the leaf. Who knows?!? I embrace the Mysteries and smile wanly at the reductionists. My sole issue with the kief/hash is the speed with which it adds to my already lamentable tolerance. Otherwise, flavor and taste are delicious - I've been playing with a couple of vapes that allow me to vaporize the kief and its near cannabinoidal ecstasy as far as I'm concerned.

Fantomatico - I have not yet tried rosin. It sounds very interesting to me, however. I have a lot to learn!!

Thanks for those mayan - very interesting as you rightly say.
I must admit, I'm surprised how "low" thc the Kali China rock in at. Again, they get me lean and lean
I am also surprised by the Malawi x PCK, that for me was absolutely lethal and one of the strongest strains I have ever smoked. In my opinion, those results definitely add strength to the holistic effects argument. As Kalbhairav said, the terpenes must have some bearing on the strength.
Feeling pretty happy that I'm about to germinate some of the Malawi Killer x Panama, it will be interesting to see how much leaner the extra thc gets me.
If the terpene thing holds any water (and as part of holistic effects, I fully expect it to) it might be a small endorsement for my theory (with the smallest of lower case "t's" ) of capturing the most volatile aromatic hydrocarbons as quickly as possible.
I love all this sort of thing, endlessly fascinating.

[Kalbhairav]

I'm enjoying you two hitting back and forth your ideas from mayans data. Pretty cool that you both have experience with the vars in question to be able to knock back and forth.

You both might be interested in the latest hash church episode (episode 80) @ utube where the panel touch on very similar subjects surrounding holistic effects verses aroma etc etc.. They're long episodes of around 3 hours but well worth a watch.

I'll check that Hash Church later, thanks Kalbhairav, sounds great.
Here's a link to explain the CBGa that mayan touched on a little more -
https://www.truthonpot.com/2013/08/10...e-cannabinoid/
Really interesting stuff.
@mayan - I use a room dehumidifier to dry mine (the other thing with it is the water comes out at 0.0 EC, so makes a good base for seedlings feeding ), not sure about a food one. The room ones are for damp and condensation, so they suck it out of flowers really nicely and evenly

[mayan]

Interesting...the food ones are awesome for dessicating just about anything. I'm sure they'd dry the shit outta cannabis if you let it It's adjustable so you can use very little heat over a bit longer of a time. Of course, too dry ain't good either so one would have constantly monitor to get the sweet spot.

[nameko]

nice thread, invaluable documentation on the flowers and cure but how high do you veg the kali china to in/before the 5 gal? would that be with or without LST?