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Marijuana profits up in smoke under IRS rules

RetroGrow

Active member
Veteran
Government now getting very greedy. They are over taxing, and creating/extending another black market:

"Voters in Oregon, Alaska, and Washington, D.C., will decide Tuesday whether to legalize the sale of recreational marijuana. But any new pot shops that voters approve may not be able to survive a drug war-era tax code that already threatens many businesses in Colorado and Washington state.

Under this tax code the federal government stands to make more money from the sale of marijuana than those legally selling it. And that could be enough to shut down many shops.

"It's almost like they want us to fail," said Mitch Woolhiser, while walking through his store called Northern Lights Cannabis Co. in Edgewater, Colo. "Everything I do is aimed at keeping us in business because if I don't, then (the feds) win. And I'm not going to let them win."

Woolhiser believes the federal government is actively seeking to undermine his business.
Woolhiser first opened shop in 2010, selling medical marijuana. He started selling recreational pot when it became legal in Colorado at the start of this year. Last year, his business didn't earn a profit. Had he been selling anything but cannabis, he would not have owed federal income tax, as he ended up with a loss.

Instead, he ended up paying close to $20,000 to the IRS because of a 1980's tax code called 280E.

"I believe that the feds extend the drug war through 280E," said Jordan Cornelius, a Denver accountant who has worked with Woolhiser and many other marijuana companies in Colorado. "If (the federal government) can't put them out of business legally when voters are mandating these businesses to move forward, it's very easy to put them out of business financially."

It's unclear that the federal government is actively enforcing this tax code in an effort to undermine the legal business, but that is the effect.
No one from the U.S. Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Administration or Internal Revenue Service would comment for this story. However, an IRS spokesperson provided a 2010 letter written in response to several lawmakers in Arizona, California, Colorado and Massachusetts who had asked the IRS to stop enforcing the tax code in states that legalized the sale of marijuana. The IRS letter pointed out that only Congress could make that change.

"The result you seek would require the Congress to amend either the Internal Revenue Code or the Controlled Substance Act," the IRS letter said.

Though multiple members of Congress received the letter, there has been little effort to amend the code.

Instead, the federal government collects taxes on what it considers an illegal drug because the Supreme Court ruled more than 50 years ago that everyone has to pay taxes — even those who make their money illegally.

Then, in 1982, Congress amended the U.S. tax code to include 280E, which says businesses selling a Schedule I or II drug — like marijuana, heroin, methamphetamine or cocaine — cannot deduct all of their regular business expenses.

The rule means that the "costs of the product," like the soil and fertilizer used to grow plants, are deductible. But the "costs of selling," like advertising, rent and utilities — even salaries for employees — are not deductible.

"If it made sense, I would feel better about following it," said Rob Corry, a Denver lawyer and marijuana advocate. "I don't see why production is deductible — they are still producing marijuana!"
But that quirk in the tax code has helped many cannabis companies stay in business over the last several years in Colorado. Medical marijuana stores were required to grow their own product, and therefore had some associated deductions.

Since Oct. 1, nearly 100 new cannabis companies got licenses to operate in Colorado and will no longer have to grow the products they sell. But without growing, many may soon find that they will have very few, if any, business deductions when filing federal taxes in April.
For Woolhiser, whose sales have increased dramatically since he began selling recreational marijuana Jan. 1, the confusing nature of the code means he has no idea how much he will owe in taxes — just that it will be far more than what it might be if he was selling anything else.

"A lot of people think that the marijuana industry is just a license to print money," said Taylor West, deputy director of the National Cannabis Industry Association. "And it's just not the case."

West works for an association of more than 750 cannabis-related businesses across the United States, and says that 280E results in her clients paying more than 70% of their profits in taxes to the federal government.

Sometimes, the rates are far higher than that.

"A lot of times, instead of paying a tax rate that should be 30 to 40%, they are paying rates between 80 or 90%," Cornelius, the accountant, said. "I even have a client right now that is paying more than 100% effective tax rate."

Woolhiser is hoping that increased sales this year will make up for the loss he took last year — but he is still paying off his debt to the IRS.

"The problem is that we have passed laws that allowed these medical marijuana and recreational marijuana companies to do business," said Mac Clouse, a University of Denver finance professor who studies the industry. "But we have all these other laws, tax laws, federal laws that make it incredibly difficult if not utterly impossible to survive."

More states may legalize marijuana this year, but state laws don't change federal laws.

And barring any changes from Congress, new cannabis businesses in those states, along with the established shops in Colorado and Washington state, face a large, and possibly ruinous, tax bill come April 15.

Pictures & comments here (leave a comment?):
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...limits-profits-marijuana-businesses/18165033/
 

RetroGrow

Active member
Veteran
This is all about keeping the DEA in business. Same ole, same ole.
These fuckers just won't let it go. The subterfuge never ends. Mind boggling. These people put their whole lives into setting up a business, and they end up working solely for the IRS. Keeps the black market thriving.
 

MJPassion

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The perfect example of why regulation does not work.

I've been saying, since I joined my first forum, that all this legalization business is nothing more than a ploy to regulate the small guys out so that the large corporations can have control of the market.

Until all laws regarding this plant (& others) are striken from the books, a black market will not. only exist... it will thrive.

Yall realize that it's a bunch of greedy psychopaths writing these regulations don't ya?
 

HidingInTheHaze

Active member
Veteran
"It's almost like they want us to fail," said Mitch Woolhiser, while walking through his store called Northern Lights Cannabis Co. in Edgewater, Colo.

/


I'd say that about sums it up. There is a golden opportunity to create good paying jobs and an economy booster but it will fail like everything else in America.

Well maybe everyone else fail except for their monopolistic corporate conglomerate and lobbyist butt-buddies.

I will sit here anxiously tapping my foot waiting for Jhhhn to swing in on Oblamer's nutsack telling us how awesome it is he can smoke weed on his porch, like he couldn't do that before under CO's decriminalization and medical marijuana laws.

I think this is just a cunning way for the gov to destroy medical MJ, squash its medical legitimacy then when that's dead and gone they will implode and destroy this quasi-legal bs all the while stealing as much money as they can in the process. I think MMJ poses a real danger to the prescription drug industry, and this is why they work so hard to block its progression and stop it from sweeping the country, its a cure-all and they know it, and something that can be grown in your yard or closet is very hard to regulate and control and tax the living hell out of.

Fuck'em all
Viva la black market!
 

MJPassion

Observer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
"Squashing the medical legitimacy"...
will be nearly impossible with the amount of resrarch that has already been done.

This struggle isn't really about mmj/rmj as much as it is about individual freedom of choice. So many people want to turn this unto a single issue struggle and. fight for "their cause". Very few people care about their children's & grand children's future.

I see the powers that be...
seizing the market for their control.

& I'm w ya...
viva la black market!!!
 

Jhhnn

Active member
Veteran
they just now thought about this?
:laughing:

Indeed. Nothing has changed, as the IRS points out. It's been the same since CA first legalized MMJ in 1996, and somehow people have become Rich through it all. Funny how that works.

I'm all in favor of legalization at the federal level so that Marijuana businesses can be treated the same as other businesses for tax purposes. The IRS is just doing their job as defined by Congress.
 

Jhhnn

Active member
Veteran
I'd say that about sums it up. There is a golden opportunity to create good paying jobs and an economy booster but it will fail like everything else in America.

Well maybe everyone else fail except for their monopolistic corporate conglomerate and lobbyist butt-buddies.

I will sit here anxiously tapping my foot waiting for Jhhhn to swing in on Oblamer's nutsack telling us how awesome it is he can smoke weed on his porch, like he couldn't do that before under CO's decriminalization and medical marijuana laws.

I think this is just a cunning way for the gov to destroy medical MJ, squash its medical legitimacy then when that's dead and gone they will implode and destroy this quasi-legal bs all the while stealing as much money as they can in the process. I think MMJ poses a real danger to the prescription drug industry, and this is why they work so hard to block its progression and stop it from sweeping the country, its a cure-all and they know it, and something that can be grown in your yard or closet is very hard to regulate and control and tax the living hell out of.

Fuck'em all
Viva la black market!

Delusional often?
 
fucking sad, but hey i guess atleast we can have this conversation unlike back in the day when we all had to be underground. hopefully things will keep progressing forward and it will be a win in the end. nothing good comes easy
 

TheOutlawTree

Active member
The whole thing is absurd at this point.

Marijuana is an incredible medicine that would take the profits away from big pharma. Im sure the DEA and other drug task forces are also worried about lay offs that would come from legalization.

Its only a matter of time before prohibition of marijuana ends.... im thankful to live in these times and wonder what the future will bring!
 

merc500

Member
the "HELL WEED" will always be controlled by the people who have risked all over the last half century not the IRS, DEA, big pharma, or Monsanto and they know it. keep it up guys the tide has turned
 

Dkgrower

Active member
Veteran
Damm dat sucks, i can to some extend understand that alkohol, cigs, ganja and other drugs would have some extra tax on it but this is just stupid..

Would it be difficult to find a loop hole out of dat 280E
 

FatherEarth

Active member
Veteran
LOL, like they could ever stop us!?... ONe thing at a time ppl.. They have removed the prison clause for using now we work on making it legal to profit from...

Taxes should be rated according to level of danger. If something is more likely to cause harm to human health ( your own or others) or to the environment. Then the more they should tax it.


Things that come to mind...

Conventional Ag practices

Recreational vehicles

Tax new guns, not bullets

Cigarettes

Alcohol

plastic baggies



disposable baby diapers
 

Betterhaff

Well-known member
Veteran
The other things that are coming in to play…the prohibition economies and the legalization economies.
 

MJPassion

Observer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Damm dat sucks, i can to some extend understand that alkohol, cigs, ganja and other drugs would have some extra tax on it but this is just stupid..

Would it be difficult to find a loop hole out of dat 280E

How about the fact that UCC TITLE 26, INTERNAL REVENUE CODE has never been legally ratified by Congress!
 

MJPassion

Observer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
LOL, like they could ever stop us!?... ONe thing at a time ppl.. They have removed the prison clause for using now we work on making it legal to profit from...

Taxes should be rated according to level of danger. If something is more likely to cause harm to human health ( your own or others) or to the environment. Then the more they should tax it.


Things that come to mind...

Conventional Ag practices

Recreational vehicles

Tax new guns, not bullets

Cigarettes

Alcohol

plastic baggies



disposable baby diapers

I can't advocate taxes since that is one of the things that I feel is a Thirteenth Amendment violation against the American people.
To force an individual or group of individuals to pay for something they choose to not be a part of, is akin to forcing an individual into becoming a slave (13th Amendment violation) FOR THE SYSTEM.
 

stoned-trout

if it smells like fish
Veteran
property tax is the worst one....seen people loose there family homes due to it...you never really own your house .that's an illusion....don't pay the man for many years and see who owns your house.....we became worse than what we ran away from and fought for....sort of ironic
 

MJPassion

Observer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Just a lil fyi, in case ya didn't already know...

Anytime a State gets involves (fed state included) in the affairs of private Citizen's, via licensing of any type (especially a license so you can use what a doctor says is ok), they are creating an illegal contract between YOU, the supposed beneficiary, and the State. Every single one if these contracts are invalid due to one fact... All legal contracts MUST have two signatures. One from either party to the contract.

Woops... Don't mean take the thread off topic but I didn't want my stoned ass to forget what I was thinking.
 

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