[jd4083]

Originally Posted by rives

I don't know anything about those specific models, but the Flame Defender units have been used by several people on here. They seem to be much more reasonably priced than the ATL units. Everybody from Amazon to eHydroponics stocks them, and there was a retailer a while back selling them at cost just because....... Can't remember who it was, though.

I've set up computer rooms with halon systems that had a switch built into the discharge head. When the bottle was actuated, it triggered a shunt-trip breaker so that the power source would be turned off at the same time. Kind of like DG's setup, but without the Rube Goldberg provenance.

That Flame Defender thing looks interesting...why's it so cheap? kinda worries me, although I guess it's a fairly simple mechanism and dry powder isn't super expensive...does it come with everything you need or do you have to install a heat trip?



btw, I've been researching devilgoob's method and came across an early prototype:

[rives]

I don't see the string to the light switch, though. It's appropriately named - it's a MIRACLE if it works......

I don't have one of the Flame Defenders, but I think that they are all ready to go with a 155-degree head. Most chemical extinguishers are pretty affordable, it's the halon ones that get expensive. With halon, you need to stop all airflow when they trip because they depend on a high concentration of the gas to put out the fire. If you don't shut off the power and the air, a fire has a very good chance of outlasting the retardant.

Here is a link to an old page on here about the flame defenders - https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=161754

[Jhhnn]

Originally Posted by jd4083

That Flame Defender thing looks interesting...why's it so cheap? kinda worries me, although I guess it's a fairly simple mechanism and dry powder isn't super expensive...does it come with everything you need or do you have to install a heat trip?



btw, I've been researching devilgoob's method and came across an early prototype:

View Image

Those were usually filled with carbon tetrachloride, the early version of halon-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_tetrachloride

Maybe more effective than we imagine. They did what they could back then.

I haven't moved up to fire suppression equipment, but I am going to linked smoke alarms-

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Kidde-Bat...ct_description

One advantage of halon over dry chem extinguishers is that dry chem makes a helluva mess. That's of secondary importance, but part of why halon is used in restaurant kitchens.

[Mikell]

HAH! Those fire grenades were the first thing I thought of when I read of the unquestionable power of water to put out electrical fires.

[devilgoob]

Hopefully a GFCI would sense that things have gone awry and shut-off things quickly also, cuz they totes trip when water is thrown around.

Yes, my idea is...well it's just an idea that could work. Schools have sprinklers.

If you had that over your light, but your light is on fire, it's not like "oh no, don't put water on that flaming light." Plus you just extend your reflector past your plants so the water dumps over that LOL. Maybe even guide the fire stopping water back into the pots, along with nutes. LOL That way if there is a fire, your prevention scheme is already working!! (Oh I am full of ideas)

But a sprinkler would be better, but more complicated. It's all about the shut-off at the outlet region too, because anywhere there is a problem, may cause wires to heat up and throwing water on it, could cause that, but not if GFCI'd. I was assuming this was included, but YES it must be included if you use...a sprinkler system.

I was being ironic by saying hover water over the light. LOL I always present my most serious ideas that way. But that string pulley, you'd just run the pulley where a fire COULD occur, you could even run it along on your wires. It's really just replacing a fire alarm, which is false, with a breaking string, which a fire only could've done, if the whole system had continuity between the pulleys, and all.


Ok, I really do sound paranoid:

1) I watched a nature show where a guy lived in a house, flood proof and raised in the woods, hunted his own food, for 15 years. I did not see a pulley system and it burned to the ground. That implies that dumping water around his fire place only, where only fires could've started, or furniture, could've helped.

2) I was smoking at a friends house, and before I left the room, I found a paper with it's edges embering. I put it out. It was an old power bill. Pick up your stuff, don't let it lay around. So if there is one relevant tip I had, it's that! Plus, again, we didn't know that popping threw something, we looked! But I saw it before I left the room.

It was like final destination. The buckets could throw load switches, before they tipped all the way. Or you could have the pulley string holding the load switch up, and a weight, down. Those GFCI's will flip anyway!!!1

Originally Posted by rives View Post
I don't know anything about those specific models, but the Flame Defender units have been used by several people on here. They seem to be much more reasonably priced than the ATL units. Everybody from Amazon to eHydroponics stocks them, and there was a retailer a while back selling them at cost just because....... Can't remember who it was, though.

I've set up computer rooms with halon systems that had a switch built into the discharge head. When the bottle was actuated, it triggered a shunt-trip breaker so that the power source would be turned off at the same time. Kind of like DG's setup, but without the Rube Goldberg provenance.

Yes, I admit, a string isn't the best. LOL . It's just so specific, because if you sense fire and you throw water or that stuff everywhere, yes it's a mess. A string senses actual fire. Or a cat.

^So is there a sure-fire way to know a fire..has started?

[Skinny Leaf]

Rives is on the right track.

Firstly, suppression and extinguish are two entirely different words. Suppression is not necessarily going to put a fire out. It will suppress it so that it gives firefighters a longer window of opportunity to extinguish the fire. Extinguisher equipment is meant to put out fires as in sprinklers you see in a building.

Rives, mentioned server rooms with Halon. Here is what happens in these server rooms. In the case of a fire there are going to be two stages. The first stage is what we call a pre-alarm condition. That means a smoke detector has sensed smoke. A couple things happen here. In most cases the fire department is called and other personnel are notified. The pre-alarm is just that it gives personnel some time to respond and perform actions that are mandated by their company. Now, if a second smoke detector senses smoke this sends the fire alarm into full alarm mode. This includes building wide notification, solenoid trip of the halon bottle, complete power shutdown to the IT room, electronic lock devices are opened, and HVAC units are powered down. For the Halon to work properly the room has to be completely sealed and any and all fans should shutdown. Halon is an oxygen depletion gas.

I have to go to work but I will come back and tell how an elevator equipment room is saved from fire and how people do not get trapped in an elevator when a fire breaks out. This setup would probably be more suited for those that did not want the fire department to come out. I do not know what products are available to home owners for fire protection because I mainly do commercial. The best bet would probably be a burglar/fire alarm hybrid panel instead of going with individual fire detection/protection devices. This would give a person contacts to work with for different types of signals generated by fire alarm devices on the fire/burg panel. And these panels have battery back-up.


Oh yeah that globe of red water is heat sensitive. It breaks on a certain temp and all of its contents dump. Not what you want.

[EclipseFour20]

If it were me, I would identify my "weak links"...the ones that potentially are "fire bombs" and respond accordingly--instead of looking for a "single silver bullet.

Breakers get hot, melt and can go "poof" if they are overloaded or "old".
Smaller gauge wire can get hot (#14 vs #10) if overused
Appliances become faulty and go "poof"
Lamp bulbs explode

Each of the above situations requires a different "solution"--not "one size fits all". If the wires are hot (overload) then the "water bombs"/sprinklers probably will do nothing--since the fire/heat is probably within the walls. If the circuit breakers melts...then "water bombs"/sprinklersw in the grow will be of little help--unless the panel is in the grow room (directly beneath the "water bomb"/sprinkler).

If you think concrete and steel are "fire proof"...I have three words for you "World Trade Center". IMHO, having a "false sense" of safety/protection is worse than having "none".

So, if it were me, I would think of all the potential fire hazards, prioritize them and respond accordingly. Nothing is more comforting than having a "real fire extinguisher" (rated for electric fires) in the garden area--hanging on the wall.

[Jhhnn]

Halon is an oxygen depletion gas

That doesn't really explain how halon works-

At high temperatures, halons decompose to release halogen atoms that combine readily with active hydrogen atoms, quenching flame propagation reactions even when adequate fuel, oxygen, and heat remain. The chemical reaction in a flame proceeds as a free radical chain reaction; by sequestering the radicals which propagate the reaction, halons are able to halt the fire at much lower concentrations than are required by fire suppressants using the more traditional methods of cooling, oxygen deprivation, or fuel dilution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halomet..._extinguishing

CO2 extinguishers work on the principle of oxygen deprivation, however. Dunno that they make such a thing, but growers' CO2 bottles could be equipped with a fusible plug adapter between the bottle & the regulator. If the temp goes too high, the plug melts, discharges the bottle. Some HVAC systems use fusible plugs as the safety of last resort in condensers or receiver tanks for different reasons.

[Mikell]

Originally Posted by Skinny Leaf

Oh yeah that globe of red water is heat sensitive. It breaks on a certain temp and all of its contents dump. Not what you want.

How many more people are going to fall prey to the joking in here.... even Augustus Gloob is on the trolley now


A burning electrical bill? Now THAT'S an electrical fire I can support.

[EclipseFour20]

Fire extinguisher (or a few) like this with a fire rating of "4A:60B:C" is worthy of having around--



https://www.homedepot.com/p/Kidde-PRO...1?N=5yc1vZbmgp

About Fire Ratings--
Class A = combustible material (paper, wood, etc)
Class B = flammable/combustible liquids (gasoline, oil, etc)
Class C = electrical (wiring, circuit breakers, etc)

The number preceding the A multiplied by 1.25 gives the equivalent extinguishing capability in gallons of water. The number preceding the B indicates the size of fire in square feet that an ordinary user should be able to extinguish. There is no additional rating for class C, as it only indicates that the extinguishing agent will not conduct electricity, and an extinguisher will never have a rating of just C.

So this $75 fire extinguisher with a fire rating of "4A:60B:C" is equivalent of using 5 gallons of water (class A) and should handle about 60 square feet of fire (class B) and weighs about 10 pounds. Got it?