can neem seed meal influence taste?

I wanted to put some neem seed meal in my soil but someone told me that the meal will make my buds taste bad. I tried looking up through google but all I'm finding is neem oil and foliar spraying influences taste but nothing on the seed meal. Sounds a little silly to me but thought I'd ask before putting it in there.

also was reading that neem seed meal will hurt the biological activity in your soil which is not what I'm going for. Does it significantly reduce activity of microbes? Thanks!

no

2nd that

pretty much what I thought. I didn't see how neem meal in the soil could influence taste in buds but this person was all up in arms about it. doesn't even make sense while a foliar spray would. thanks for your responses! I might have to do some more research about neem and microbes but there are opposing views so it makes it confusing. does anyone have any good links or is there a thread on this I haven't seen yet?

DoubleDDsNuggs said:

pretty much what I thought. I didn't see how neem meal in the soil could influence taste in buds but this person was all up in arms about it. doesn't even make sense while a foliar spray would. thanks for your responses! I might have to do some more research about neem and microbes but there are opposing views so it makes it confusing. does anyone have any good links or is there a thread on this I haven't seen yet?

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I could see foliar of neem in flower effecting taste. the stuff has a distinct auroma.

I've never had the pleasure of smelling neem lol probably should though

im sure someone will jump up and disagree, but after trying both tons of times, I find the triple action or 70% neem to be better in every way...

everyone seems to have their favorite type of neem and their reasons what's a good application rate for soil? I have a cubic yard with compost and fertilizers already so the least amount possible but still effective would be great.

Triple Action & 70% neem are made from hydrophobic clarified extract. No, thanks.

Pure, cold pressed neem oil is where it's at. Why would I want an extract that is missing a very important part, the azadirachtin, when I can get the whole enchilada? Same deal with buying just azadirachtin products that are missing the oil. Check the labels when buying neem, some companies have become skilled at wording it in such a way to confuse even experienced buyers.

And no, it doesn't mess with the taste/flavor. Neither do guanos. That's some bro science gardening myth bullshit.

DoubleDDsNuggs said:

everyone seems to have their favorite type of neem and their reasons what's a good application rate for soil? I have a cubic yard with compost and fertilizers already so the least amount possible but still effective would be great.

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for soil I heard 5 ML pure neem oil 1 liter of water...for soil drench.. check out >>> https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=267654 <<< ...GG

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Get the Facts: Neem Oil

With neem oil being one of the most widely used insecticide and fungicide in organic gardening, there are many different products out there that make a wide variety of claims on what their product is effective for and we need to set the record straight.



Neem oil is made from the neem seed and it can be extracted in different forms to be used for many different applications.



Many people think that 100% crude neem oil is the most effective solution for organic insect and fungal control, but in fact it is most commonly used for soaps, cosmetics, lubricants and other consumer products. As stated by Cornell University, “100% cold pressed neem oil is being sold as a plant wash, but has no pesticide label”. Many companies claim wildly inconsistent uses for crude neem oil, such as pesticide, leaf shine, hair care, etc. and most lack an EPA registration.



Also, crude neem oil contains azadirachtin as one of its main components. When left in the neem oil it can be very unstable causing a decrease in potency, increased phytotoxicity to plants, and a limited shelf life. Due to this lack of quality control and poor efficacy, there has been a need to refine the process and develop a product that is stable, dependable and effective.



Certis, the biopesticide company, has patented an extraction process to separate azadirachtin and clarified neem oil to ensure they are more stable and effective.



Azadirachtin and clarified neem oil are derived from the natural/crude oil. When the natural neem oil is removed from the seeds and treated with alcohol, virtually all of the azadirachtin and related substances separate from the oil itself. The remaining oil - without the azadirachtin - is called Clarified Hydrophobic Extract of Neem Oil, and is effective as a fungicide and miticide. The clarification process makes for better tank mix compatibility, longer shelf life of the product, greater plant tolerance, less phytotoxicity, and it is EPA registered and meets NOP and OMRI requirements.
Safer Garden Defese Gallon



Safer® Brand carries Garden Defense which is made from this clarified neem oil to control fungal diseases including black spot, mildews, rust and scab. It also kills mites and insects including whiteflies, aphids and scales. Garden Defense works by coating the bugs and over time they suffocate. It’s important to note that as with any oil-based product it does leave some residual on the plant that can last for a couple of weeks.



The other part left of this extraction process is the azadirachtin. Azadirachtin is a key insecticidal ingredient found in the neem tree, and is a natural insect growth regulator. Azadirachtin blocks the insect’s production and release of its hormones, killing them before they molt into their next life stage. It also acts as a repellent as it suppresses some insects’ desire to feed and also repels in areas that have been sprayed. These different modes of action result in broad spectrum control of the majority of insects that harm your yard and garden.
BioNEEM



Besides being an organic insecticide, azadirachtin allows you to target pests, specifically, as opposed to beneficial insects (e.g., bees and lady bugs). By definition, "pests" are the insects eating your plants, and this product, properly applied, kills an insect only if it ingests the sprayed foliage (bees and lady bugs don't eat plant leaves). Safer® carries an azadirachtin product called BioNEEM®, which is effective in killing and repelling various insects including aphids, beetles, caterpillars, thrips and whiteflies. A plus of BioNEEM® is that it works like other organic insecticide products because it breaks down quickly within 7 days and leaves no residual impact on the environment.



As you can see, there are many different uses for neem oil, but it’s important to understand how each form is best used.






Neem Process

Many people think that 100% crude neem oil is the most effective solution for organic insect and fungal control, but in fact it is most commonly used for soaps, cosmetics, lubricants and other consumer products. As stated by Cornell University, “100% cold pressed neem oil is being sold as a plant wash, but has no pesticide label”. Many companies claim wildly inconsistent uses for crude neem oil, such as pesticide, leaf shine, hair care, etc. and most lack an EPA registration.



Also, crude neem oil contains azadirachtin as one of its main components. When left in the neem oil it can be very unstable causing a decrease in potency, increased phytotoxicity to plants, and a limited shelf life. Due to this lack of quality control and poor efficacy, there has been a need to refine the process and develop a product that is stable, dependable and effective.

I would think the property of neem seed meal (antifungal), much like kelp meal (antimicrobial), would have an initial effect on soil microbes/fungi, but after a short cook would lessen considerably, especially with re-innoculation with AACT. This is just my own line of thinking.

Currently running an organic mix with neem and kelp as the only added meals, and though I don't have CFU counts or any measurement of microbe populations, I'll use that awesome system of measurement for whether an action is successful or not, and say "my plants ain't dead, so it must be good."

From wiki *internal shudder*

Being totally natural, it is compatible with soil microbes, improves and rhizosphere microflora and hence ensures fertility of the soil. Neem Cake improves the organic matter content of the soil, helping improve soil texture, water holding capacity, and soil aeration for better root development.

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The wording of this quote ("Being totally natural") and the lack of any footnote reference makes me leary.

The only thing I can find that comes close to supporting my above conjecture is this pdf, though reading it with my laymans eyes, I can't find anything really concrete to bite on to.

http://www.sustech.edu/staff_publications/20120507114834981.pdf


*Edit* I avoid clarified neem oil extracts like the plague. Laying doubt on unprocessed neem oil is weak, but something to be expected from a company making a product using clarified oil, stripped of most of the terpenes (and lovingly sold at compassionate pricing as azadirachtin extracts.)

DoubleDDsNuggs said:

I've never had the pleasure of smelling neem lol probably should though

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Some people find it offputting. I love the smell. There's something peanut-saucey about the oil. The neem meal has a earthier richer smell. I don't buy into neem meal affecting the taste any more than using cow manure would make it taste like shit. Even the oil breaks down within 48h in sunlight, so unless you're harvesting and smoking in that time you should be fine.

is that you CC?

Ol Coot? Naw, but he's still kicking. Just not around these parts. I just hollered at him recently at a different gardening site.

when growing outdoors i use pure neem oil (100%) and neem cake throughout the growing cycle...due to high humidity i have sprayed my buds with pure neem oil up to 2 weeks before harvest to fight mould and have never had the taste in the buds...

whilst 70% hydrophobic neem oil will work at times it does have most of the active ingredients removed...so the pure stuff is the way to go

Ozzie when you're talking pure you mean diluted down with water, right? Not pure pure 100% undiluted directly onto a plant.

Luther Burbank said:

Ol Coot? Naw, but he's still kicking. Just not around these parts. I just hollered at him recently at a different gardening site.

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right on I hope he is doing well, you seem real familiar with your posts... you must be part of the ROLS crew at least.

either way I enjoy your perspective

Used to be. These days I'd like to think I've thrown ideologies aside. They seemed to be interfering with learning. Reality is so big we almost always need a lens to view it through, but I haven't found any lens large enough to encompass its complexities.