High-CBD Charlotte's Web strain more hype than help

This is an interesting article I read and wanted to share with the group. I am in search of a treatment plan involving a close friends daughter,and I know some of you folks here are looking for the same. Please feel free to give your thoughts about the article. And also any advise pertaining to treatments for various illness you have encountered personally or as a caregiver. Over the last year one marijuana strain has gained more attention than any other. Charlotte's Web, a high-CBD strain bred out by, Realm of Caring, a group of dispensary owners in Colorado has quickly become a buzz-word among lawmakers across the U.S. The effect is that many people seem to think that Charlotte's Web is the only high-CBD strain out there, and that children suffering from seizures must have access to Charlotte's Web specifically.

While the strain has definitely been shown to help children, it isn't the only one despite what the PR machine behind Realm of Caring would have everyone believe. Eleven states passed high-CBD laws this past session, and many of them use Charlotte's Web specifically in their names. Included in that is a bill submitted this week dubbed the Charlotte's Web Medical Hemp act of 2014 which would legalize the proprietary strain federally.

Vanessa Waltz, cannabis activist and columnist at Lady Bud, writes a lengthy and detailed look at Charlottes Web and the phenomenon surrounding it this week. In it, she points out that there are many other high CBD strains that can be used and that Charlotte's Web is more of a marketing gimmick than anything else. Beyond that, she says a new plan for a federal CBD-only exemption doesn't take into account the thousands of other cannabinoids that also help sick children and that plans from ROC to grow industrial hemp and pass the oil off as Charlotte's Web are going to leave patients in the dark.
Waltz says that many parents have grown disillusioned with Charlottes Web, including Jason David, who has been treating his son's epileptic condition with cannabis oil since 2011. David says that by pushing legislation that only allows for CBD in the oil, they are ignoring the benefits of mild doses of THC and THC-A.
"They're not telling the whole truth," David tells LadyBud. "There's no way possible that all these children in Colorado could get seizure control and get off all their medications without using different ratios and adding THC and THCA (which are not allowed by the newly proposed legislation). Charlotte's Web can work great in the beginning but it's impossible to get off all the medications and go through benzo withdrawals without being able to play with the THC ratios. ... The only realistic option is having the whole plant available, THC and all, so people can trial and error just like with pharmaceuticals. There are so many ways to use this plant, and it's only ok to have one ratio? That doesn't make sense. This plant isn't half-good and half-evil."
Another parent, Brian Wilson, says his daughter Vivian - who has been featured here in Toke as well as in other national news sites - wouldn't have been able to control her seizures on CBD alone.
"We saw minor seizure control and developmental progress with CBD alone, but we didn't see real seizure control until we added measurable levels of THC to the mix," explains Wilson. "Others see great results with THCA added in. Some see very good results with no CBD, like in NJ where there is little to no CBD available. The point is, this is highly individualized medicine. There is no magic bullet."
The point? That CBD-only legislation is setting up some parents for disappointment after they've been told it could be a miracle cure. Beyond that, LadyBud contends that the CBD-only legislation at the federal and state level has more to do with Realm of Caring's business model than anything else. She points to the trademarking of the name "Charlotte's Web" and ROCs push to distinguish CBD as separate from marijuana.
"Many activists believe that RoC's labeling of their medicine as separate from medical marijuana is completely disrespectful to the activists that came before them," Waltz writes. "Indeed, how would the [owners of RoC, the Stanley brothers[ have ever been able to develop the Charlotte's Web strain without comprehensive medical cannabis legislation in Colorado? At a time when public support for widespread comprehensive reform is at an all-time high, many of the most prominent pediatric epilepsy activists in our country are becoming more and more skeptical of RoC's intent."
We at Toke agree. CBD-only legislation is being used as a way to pacify voters and for politicians to say that they've "legalized medical marijuana" when they actually haven't. Other politicians are using recently passed CBD laws as a way to show that cannabis activists who are asking for broader access to the plant are taking the state down a "slippery slope". There's also something that doesn't sit right about legislation around the country that uses a trademarked marijuana strain name so specifically when what really matters is the concentration of the cannabinoids themselves. There are dozens if not hundreds of high-CBD strains out there than can help patients and it's time more lawmakers and voters realized that.

Now this is interesting:

http://www.whas11.com/news/Man-brot...ork-to-make-medicine-from-hemp-270425301.html

Josh Stanley, godfather of CW, is moving the operation to Kentucky and calling it "hemp." Gosh, do you suppose CW might have always been nothing more than garden variety hemp or even ditchweed that grows all over the place and everywhere? I bet there is not nearly as much money in hemp flower oil.

CW, just a pheno of resin seeds cannatonic... Pop away and ignore the hype

great brozini said:

just a pheno of resin seeds cannatonic... Pop away and ignore the hype

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Yeah like practically the 90% of true CBD strains nowadays, indeed they are all phenos and crosses from the same original spanish strains besides all those fancy names haha...

But what no one says is that Cannatonic it's also just a pheno of another strain from a third seedbank and not MK Ultra X G13 like they say lol. Resin Seeds (and by extension all the people working with those genetics and spreading bullshit all over the world) are just making cash from the original strains discovered by the Spanish seedbank Reggae Seeds, they were the first guys who found those rare CBD phenos in their strains (Dub, Dancehall, Juanita) and started working with them in 2004-2006. They were crosses made from a CBD rich NYC Diesel male (Soma Seeds) and Queen Mother strain (Delicatessen Seeds).

Later in 2008 Jaime from Resin seeds got 7000 seeds from them (via Alex, who was Soma's son-in-law) and from there, they selected a few CBD rich phenotypes and named them Cannatonic and Dulce Canna, but they were simply phenos of Dancehall or Dub strains from Reggae Seeds. Time after that, he also founded CBD Crew with Shantiblabla and they started hyping up all the CBD bullshit.

Jimmy, breeder of Reggae Seeds starts the wave in 2004 with a New York City Diesel Male with CBD that uses to create Juanita la lagrimosa, Kalijah and more strains, in the second step he creates in 2006 Dancehall, Dub, Session and more strains. In 2008 he gives to Alex Soma 5000 Dub and 2000 Dancehall (still not payed). Alex gives to Jaime (Resin Seeds) but say him that was MK Ultra x G13 Haze, Jaime select Cannatonic and Freeman selects Dieseltonic and Dulce Canna, we believe the 3 plants are genotypes of Dancehall. Jaime gets a prize in High Times Cannabis Cup 2008 and make the analysis in Canna stand during Spannabis 2009 discovering the CBD Wave. In 2009 and 2010 Jaime makes the first CBD genetics marketing campaign. Jaime and Shantibaba create CBD Crew to offer a whole range of CBD genetics.

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Same with medical projects like Tikum Olam in Israel. They simply got packs from Jaime, first some Cannatonic packs and later 300 feminised seeds of Z6 and Z7. They used all those strains to select Avi-Dekel (16.3% CBD), Midnight (12.4 % CBD), El-Na (6.5 % CBD) or Rafael (18.6% CBD) but they are in fact simply different phenotypes of the same plants. They haven't been doing any super special scientific breeding or anything like that, just growing those seeds they got from Jaime.

So the sad thing is that the ones taking the credit by all this CBD trend are not even the strain creators but just some greedy guys making he most from the trend and other people's work. It's always the same old story, even though Reggae Seeds were also working with stuff from others (Delicatessen Seeds and Soma) already instead of doing proper breeding with landraces or their own genetics.

Good and true info there Mustafunk.

I always thought the SB took a high CBD plant and started crossing it with other strains they had. The CW was nothing but a high CBD plant they where trying to breed into other crosses. They then tried it on those kids the rest is history..

Purple Frostbyte said:

I always thought the SB took a high CBD plant and started crossing it with other strains they had.

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That’s what I thought too, I believe it started with the Remedy and evolved to the Z series. The Z series was a precursor to the work being done by the CBD crew with plants that have high CBD or high THC or a mix of CBD/THC. CBD crew strains are CBD rich varieties which also contain THC trying to achieve a 1:1 ratio with all plants, not just plants exclusively high in CBD.

I am in agreement with a lot of what is said in the opening post, CBD legislation is way too narrow as far as the benefits of the plant and it is more or less “lip service” by the politicos. Hopefully this doesn’t turn into something that is seen in the pharma industry where you have the active ingredient being marketed by a trade name. THC has always been touted as the bad side of cannabis, but there may be so many potential benefits. There are a lot of medicines that have good and bad sides.

One good thing about all this is that a message is getting brought to forefront and to the masses…that there are benefits from the plant.

mistafunk ftw!

Perhaps self-medication works for children too.

How about giving a sick child a variety of strains, including one or more CBD rich strains, then let them 'play' ? Also some Afghui.

CW is a joke. There are 20%cbd strains floating around as we speak.

They could market a turd.

I mean, They are marketing a turd.

bancos&variedades (seedbank&strains) / criadores de cannabis (cannabis breeders) thread
page 13 post 190 14/09/2010 21:45 PM
posted by Raco citing CC21

This is what Jaime has told me about Cannatonic ( he looks a good guy, but a lot of unlucky mistakes by him on this one)
Hello Emilio, sorry for the delay answering.
Of course that I don´t mind answering you, it´s part of my job. I wasn´t very aware of the forums, I´ve got no time to read them and I don´t like the fact thet there is people hiding behind nicks to tell lies and write things that are not based on real facts.To be honest with you, I´ve got doubts myself about the genetics of cannatonic and altough it´s a quite long history, I´m going to explain you to clarify things a bit.
Resin seeds starts as a project between Alex ( son in law of Soma) and me in 2007. I was keeping at home all of Soma´s genetics and some of Adam´s ( TH seeds), together with selected strains from other seedbanks.After being a grower for 20 years, I had never made seeds yet; there were several factors to start:
The rise of spanish seedbanks, the genetic library at home, and a personal wish to gave a change to what I was doing for so many time(grow), to start something new and interesting (breeding)... so we tought that crossing that genetics we would have somenthing new; this was a high priority for us, as we wanted to start a innovative seedbank.
As I was very busy with my shops and grow houses, not having any experience making feminized seeds ( I didn´t know the way of using the STS ),as was the case with Alex, He suggested to hire a guy known as Jimmy ( I didn´t know him at the time and later did find out that he was the owner of Reggae Seeds).
I gave the genetics to Alex and him supposedly gave them to Jimmy to make seeds ( both regular and feminized ).We decided the crossings and months later, I think it was first of may, Alex came with the seeds ( regular and feminized, that by the way, without even today knowing who made them, I did put for sale and gave me serious troubles because there were males and hermies_ my fault as I did trust him and just tested the regular seeds_. I germed 80 regular seeds of Cannatonic ( that was the name agreed for the cross of Adam´s female MK Ultra and Soma´s G13Haze male), grow them, flowered them and selected 1.
At the same time Freeman, a good friend of the area made another selection of 50 seeds, from where we got later "Picantona" and "Dulce Canna", both with a very high average of CBD like Cannatonic.
I kept a mother from the first selection and it was from her clones that we got the sample that got 3.prize that year on the Cannabis Cup of the end of november; the sample was harvested with just 9 weeks and cured only 10 days as there was no time to enter it.While I was doing my selection I started to grow suspicious that there was somenthing weird; even if the smell was fresh, kind of haze smoking it, the taste on the mounth reminded me of Soma´s NYCD, I told this to Alex who didn´t agree with me...but well, I didn´t care much at the moment, because to be honest it was somenthing new and fresh.
I entered her in the sativa cup for diferent reasons: the way of flowering ( she stretches if you let the lights on a normal distance) with a lot of branching, haze smell, no sedative effect.... altough you can say she has somenthing of indica, the flowering period ( 9 weeks) and high production.
During that same summer, we started to put in place all the machinery needed to create a Seed Bank, from legal aspects to organization and marketing ( design, strain names, photos, magazine advertising, catalogues, posters etc, etc.That summer Alex tells me that he wanted to move to the south of Spain and that he wants to sell me his share of the seedbank; I paid him a good amounth of money in exchange of all the seeds produced.Well everything fine untill that moment, we had created a seedbank, that months later was the first spanish seedbank to win a prize in the most important cup of the world... it´s there that problems and doubts started. As soon as Cannatonic starts to be known in Spain ( after the prize and many thousand of euros invested in marketing), I start to hear in my area that Cannatonic is similar to some "Juanita", a strain that I had never hear of. I found out that this strain was making his name on the area of Gerona, because Jimmy had distributed clones trough some growshops in the area. I didn´t like it at all and I couldn´t stay without knowing if the rumours were true or not ; Alex had fooled me_ a possibility knowing his liar fame_ or Jimmy had fooled Alex.
I called Jimmy, I went to his home ( I didn´t know him) and after sampling my Cannatonic, he tells me that it´s his Juanita and that he hasn´t produced seeds for Alex, neither used that crosses of my genetics... You can imagine what I tought that moment with thousands of catalogues, packs printed and closed, a prize in the cannabis cup....
The thing is that to answer you ( and sorry about all this stuff, but you will see it´s needed to understand), the only thing I can say is that I think the seeds brought to me by Alex weren´t MK ULTRA x G13HAZE, probably NYCD x G13HAZE or REINA MADRE, that Jimmy says it´s his Juanita, even when he told me that he didn´t make seeds for Alex. In any case it can´t be the same plant than his Juanita as I selected myself the plant that entered the Cannabis Cup ( this has been confirmed to me by local growers who have sampled both); There weren´t seeds of Juanita for sale with that name untill 2010 while Cannatonic seeds where available since 2007, being myself first testing the strain with gas cromatrography to see the THC&CBD levels in 2008 Spannabis fair and that I have worked a lot, espending a lot of money to make the world know this strain, working in medicinal cannabis projects in Israel, Canada and EEUU, with great feedback on a patient level, a fact that makes me feel really good and not the rest of silly things and rumours on the forums, with all the respect for the people that gives his view with knowledge.To receive a call from Canada, to tell me that some patients have stoped taking their medication just smoking Cannatonic, makes me feel really full. Work, effort and money that others want to take advantage of, things that some people have no fucking idea of, but keep telling lies on the forums, using their anonimity.
I want to tell you that I haven´t got a good relationship with Alex long time ago, and that I have got no problem with Jimmy; I do recognise his great work,the numerous prizes he has received are a proof of this.
I hope that I´ve answered your questions, the only things I know is that the feminized seeds of Cannatonic that I produce myself now ( it´s the only way way of being sure what are you really selling, as I had allready to take 4 strains off my catalogue as you can see on my web), come from the clone I selected from the seeds that Alex brought to me supposedly from Jimmy.
From there anyone can draw his conclusions.
Greetings
Jaime Carrion
Resin Seeds.

This was posted by Jaime himself.....not the first time I post it here

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=282148

Noce stories and bullshit from Jaime, it was posted a Mr Nice forums (http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-s...at-bred-mns-strains-make-them-higher-cbd.html)... obvioulsy he felt forced to reply under all that pressure and accusations at the forums putting him on the edge. Yeah sure he selected the Cannatonic plant but from Reggae's packets, just like Dieseltonic and Dulce Canna.

But anyway, what did you expect? Admiting that he hacked the strain, invented the lineages and he's getting all the fame and money by the work of another guy? lol. Him, Dinafem and a few others are like the spanish Arjans and they control all the market here. C'mon guys, this cannabussiness is full of shit, this is something that happens since the Skunk#1 times!

The topic was widely discussed at the spanish forums and even magazines, at the last article they even posted the original receipt of the seeds that Reggae Seeds sold to Soma's son in law. The truth is out there for anyone who wants (and speaks a bit of spanish haha).



Full magazine article in PDF: http://www.reggaeseeds.com/spa/news/new/file/6/

P.S: CBD strains, the new mass-selling tool and response to a market that was already demanding something new!

Vibes.

I totally agree with and thank you for re-posting the information regarding Reggae seeds. I've thought for a long time now that they got shafted.

I did find the following quote confusing though. I don't understand how (or why) accommodating consumer demand is a bad thing? Isn't that simply the normal practice of any industry and/or business? Supply and demand

Mustafunk said:

P.S: CBD strains, the new mass-selling tool and response to a market that was already demanding something new!

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ECtraveler said:

I did find the following quote confusing though. I don't understand how (or why) accommodating consumer demand is a bad thing? Isn't that simply the normal practice of any industry and/or business?

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It doesn't have to be a bad thing (although then for me it's a company that focuses on mass-selling rather than offering a quality product that never gets old). But do you really think that the consumers or patients demanded that CBD trend from nowadays? Or was it the seedbanks that created the demand with all that CBD marketing like if it was the Holy Grail and panacea for patients after finding a new way to bring some attention to something they could be selling? Maybe the patients were simply demanding medical grade proven and effective relieving strains or medicines, but seedbanks were too busy trying to push THC and frostyness limits forward and catching some trendy elites instead of focusing on medical strains and breeding for them on their own. I guess that the fact that only a small % are proper breeders and know what they are doing needs to be taken on account lol. I still remember how Shantibaba and Jaime had problems with the CBD breeding results at CBD Crew until they got their eyes on the 2002's paper from De Meijer et al The Inheritance of Chemotype in Cannabis Sativa L. After reading those papers, finally they knew what to do and their strains started to have consistent results with the CBD ratios (so they were ready to start advertising CBD strains) but not before! That only shows how ridiculous and lost are most of the so called cannabis breeders. They can't even breed properly for consistent high CBD strains on their own until a proper breeder or scientist shows the proper way to do it. So in this case, I'd rather have an oldschool artisan breeding with original and interesting strains simply for a nice smell, good result and especially a good balanced high (something that sometimes seems to be forgotten, quality effect should be always the main goal over resin, any % and all that bullshit) than all this fancy seedbanks selling nice descriptions and gold priced mud. Same for pain relieving or medical strains. There is no need to be narrow minded and focus on % and ratios but consistent and satisfactory results.

So generally I do support small indepedent breeders doing original and interesting works rather than commercial strains and mass selling seedbanks, just the same with music bands, movies, etc. I try to research a lot before buying to get my own criteria and avoid the big companies that just invest a lot in marketing or following trends that maybe don't meet my thoughts, needs or criteria. I just meant that with my PS.

I guess most consumers simply demand something good that makes them high (in my case), or super stoned and couchlocked, or gives them a relief in case of patients, whether it's high CBD or simply a good and balanced strain with proven results for pain relieving or whatever the goal. I'm pretty sure that besides all the CBD trend, the pain relief or any other medical property of cannabis has also much more to do with the rigth terpenes than with having a super % of pure CBD or whatever the cannabinoid.

This just reminds me how until not much time ago, seedbanks used the %THC to push their sells and advertise their seeds. Later we've found out that it doesn't count as much as the terpene profile and how it interacts with the rest of cannabinoids in one certain high or another effects, so many times the right 10%THC strain is much better or stronger than a 24%THC commercial strain that lacks character and just makes you feel dizzy and non functional. Now I guess it's the %CBD time...

I bet sooner or later, when they discover that this or that terpene is what makes you super high or stoned or kills the pain, then it will be % terpene-rich strains! But hey, remember I said it first! lol.


Vibes.

I definitely have had that experience mustafunk, I had one one plant that was a good analgesic but didn't test with any cbd. And it worked better than harlequin in that repect.

Terpenes aren't held responsible on a marketable level yet.

Mustafunk said:

Noce stories and bullshit from Jaime, it was posted a Mr Nice forums (http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-s...at-bred-mns-strains-make-them-higher-cbd.html)... obvioulsy he felt forced to reply under all that pressure and accusations at the forums putting him on the edge. Yeah sure he selected the Cannatonic plant but from Reggae's packets, just like Dieseltonic and Dulce Canna.

But anyway, what did you expect? Admiting that he hacked the strain, invented the lineages and he's getting all the fame and money by the work of another guy? lol. Him, Dinafem and a few others are like the spanish Arjans and they control all the market here. C'mon guys, this cannabussiness is full of shit, this is something that happens since the Skunk#1 times!

The topic was widely discussed at the spanish forums and even magazines, at the last article they even posted the original receipt of the seeds that Reggae Seeds sold to Soma's son in law. The truth is out there for anyone who wants (and speaks a bit of spanish haha).

View Image

Full magazine article in PDF: http://www.reggaeseeds.com/spa/news/new/file/6/

P.S: CBD strains, the new mass-selling tool and response to a market that was already demanding something new!

Vibes.

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I don´t know where Jaime posted that originally; it was posted on@Cannabiscafe.

I don´t know where is the true, somewhere to be found...never mind.

Nah, I'm not buying into any conspiracy theories. Here is the states at least demand for CBD has increased because of the increase in publicity surrounding recent medical discoveries. It has absolutely nothing to do with seedbanks, breeders or associated marketing. The majority of these patients aren't even aware of the things you mentioned much less have it affect their decision.

Mustafunk said:

I bet sooner or later, when they discover that this or that terpene is what makes you super high or stoned or kills the pain, then it will be % terpene-rich strains! But hey, remember I said it first! lol.

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I totally agree that we have yet to begin to fully understand what's truly at work. I also agree that the entourage effect until recently has been seriously downplayed. I just don't understand what's wrong with utilizing the information we already have. Is it not documented that CBD is beneficial? So what's wrong with using that for marketing purposes? What is the alternative?

A strain called R4 floating around Colorado is Charlotte's web. But CBD high plants should work. Have any strain tested for CBD to find the best pheno to use.
Always like the idea of a 1 to 1 ratio and Dieseltonic sounds like a good strain from cannatonic. Testing is important to find the pheno to use especially if you plan to breed with it..

Useful Idiot
You jealous .it was on CNN with Gupta .ass hole some one does something pos and some ass crawls out from bathe shit to say it is his idea