[newestguy]

Sealed up a room 10 months ago, after much success air cooling. I used a mini split and installed a autopilot 4 burner LP co2 generator. Pretty much right from the start I experienced problems. The plants where never the same again. I blamed myself, thinking that somehow I had made a mistake and my skills and strategies where not performing in a sealed room. I switched from peat to coco and back to peat, tried everything I could think, spent more money than you could imagine. Finally at my wits end, I moved in organic plants, peat plants fed salts, and coco plants fed other salts. They all crashed in essentially the same way. Immediately I realized it was nothing I was doing. Looked around for any plastics that could cause vocs, couldn't find much but pretty much removed everything made of plastic, still had the issue. At that point I got it! Pulled the co2 generator out, pulled out a bottled gas setup and my garden has never looked better.

It was absolutely this co2 generator at fault. I noticed that there was a buildup of black on the nozzles at this point. FWIW, i had thoroughly checked the flame during this whole time. It had been a nice flower shaped flame with no lazy qualities. It did show a bit of yellow over where the ignition wires where, it also would periodically flick a bit of yellow at the edges.

I still don't know if the flame and burner residue in these images and video are normal or not, interested to see what others who run generators say. I do know that for whatever reason it was causing huge problems.



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Sorry the video lost a lot of quality when it got uploaded, but you can still clearly see the flame quality and the slight bit of yellow flicking up.

[Mikell]

I know this will sound stupid, but you've got a controller?


I don't think the burner was the problem, but it will accentuate problems that may not have been such an issue beforehand, or as noticeable. The burner looks fine at least.

[newestguy]

Originally Posted by Mikell

I know this will sound stupid, but you've got a controller?


I don't think the burner was the problem, but it will accentuate problems that may not have been such an issue beforehand, or as noticeable. The burner looks fine at least.

Yep I had it hooked to a controller, room environment is absolute without fail as good as it can get. I can 100% unequivocally state that it was the burner and nothing else. 3 different medias fed 3 different ways, all as healthy as can be in veg side, brought into sealed bloom room and they start to fold. Start air cooling, come right back, turn on burner they fold.

Absolutely the moment that burner was removed and bottled gas installed the garden went nuts, its incredible. I feel like for once in the history of indoor gardening there is absolutely zero doubt that this autopilot generator was absolutely the issue. I am super happy to put the nightmare this thing created behind me, but I am a little bummed at running a bottled gas setup. Based on a few things beyond my control it is less than ideal. It can and will be done for as long as is needed but it is undesirable. I would love to try another burner but I am just scared, that shit was a fucking nightmare.

[newestguy]

Sorry can't edit, but I thought I should throw this in. I did not blame the burner without thoroughly checking many things. I knew I had problems over the last 8-10 months (since sealed) but I didn't get it until i saw so many different things go down hill so drastically. I rode it out for like at least 10 days changing temps RH, periodic venting etc. What i found is that fully sealed they failed fast, air cooled popped back just as fast, periodic venting slowed the crash, but still super pathetic. Thankfully the universe took pity on me and these plants where strong, they survived the 10 days or so of trial and error and where ready for me when i switched to bottled. None of the temp or RH changes made much if any difference at all.

When the generator ran all new growth would sag, like worse than overwatered, kind of along the lines of stupid bad VPD. They would also occasionally turn around, pray like crazy and look just like a mag def/salt buildup.

For the bulk of the 10 months I was just so confused, they would stretch great (no burner) they would stack fine, and honestly when the burner first would come on the decline would be gradual, I think because this batch was so big and healthy coming in i just couldn't help but see it. With the generator running the plants would just stall out, the pistils would pause and then die back and super early in the cycle I would see the calyx's push. Ultimately the plants would precede to degrease themselves, ultimately resulting in more or less schwaag.

Now that I think about it the only time anything came out of there tasty it was a 10 weeker that had been run along side a 7 weeker, because I didn't turn back on the generator I guess stuff turned out acceptable.

The other thing I should add is that the only way to combat the meltdown this generator would cause was to feed SUPER light, like crazy like .6-.8 ec in coco. If I went any higher than that they tended to lock out or go N toxic. The funny thing is that with the bottled gas at first I was still feeding like that, shit got so hungry it was gross, after about a week of upping the food I ended up feeding most salt plants around 1.4-1.6 ec, peat is feed feed water or there abouts, and it all still looks more or less hungry.

[seebobski]

L.p. gas can have contamination when you buy in bulk. I have a catalytic heater
(Big Buddy) and it's recommended to use a inline filter for gas. It has helped a lot to keep it reliablely starting and burn clean. One other thing is altitude to jet burner orifice size. If to big you will get other colors other than just blue. Are you in the foothills or high in the mountains? Also try plugging a couple of burners , you did say it has 4 burners. It might be to much for your size a room . Bottles of co2 is cleaner but more hastle !

[Mikell]

Ah I see, didn't realize/read properly that you had went with bottled after pulling the burner.

Is there a passive intake? re: fresh air for combustion. As well, last time I ran fully sealed, we did a quick blast venting after lights out. Some do, some don't, there are arguments both ways. The burner manufacturer agreed with venting so we leaned that way.

I wouldn't recommend plugging any burners. Fiddling with gas appliances.... XD

[newestguy]

Originally Posted by seebobski

L.p. gas can have contamination when you buy in bulk. I have a catalytic heater
(Big Buddy) and it's recommended to use a inline filter for gas. It has helped a lot to keep it reliablely starting and burn clean. One other thing is altitude to jet burner orifice size. If to big you will get other colors other than just blue. Are you in the foothills or high in the mountains? Also try plugging a couple of burners , you did say it has 4 burners. It might be to much for your size a room . Bottles of co2 is cleaner but more hastle !

Originally Posted by Mikell

Ah I see, didn't realize/read properly that you had went with bottled after pulling the burner.

Is there a passive intake? re: fresh air for combustion. As well, last time I ran fully sealed, we did a quick blast venting after lights out. Some do, some don't, there are arguments both ways. The burner manufacturer agreed with venting so we leaned that way.

I wouldn't recommend plugging any burners. Fiddling with gas appliances.... XD

I pretty much tried this thing every way possible, I ran with negative pressure (6" inline pulling through a filter) I think I even tried an active intake, turning down the intake fan with a rheostat, not positive I left that on for long, because the burner just ran non stop. I also tried it completely sealed, with only the mini split cooling. Definitely the poison was most noticeable with the room completely 100% sealed. I don't think they would have lasted much longer than the 10 days I played around with it.

I did play around with the provided plugs, tried it with both 4 and 2, no real difference in plant health, maybe a slightly slower decline with the 2 burners. I am at 1000 feet elevation, never had this be considered high altitude for any other appliance, but potentially it could be right in the middle?

I am so open to suggestions as to where the poison may be coming from. I did the normal 5 gallon (or lb) cylinder. I also made sure and got the propane from as many different sources as I could.

I am really interested in the inline filter thing, I would so love to be able to run a burner successfully. Seeing the benefits of the bottled gas, but man I go through it.

[growshopfrank]

My guess would be that the burner was using up the oxygen in your room
the plants only being able to tolerate very low feed schedules tends to back this up more than contaminates in the propane being the cause

I have had similar issues growing in sea cans ended up using a intake fan filtered through a can filter run on a cycle timer during daylight hours to fix FWIW

[BlueHaze]

I got same issue as you. I run at 600 the most. If not all hell break loose in there.

[the gnome]

pic of the plants would be nice along with other specifics,
like room size, number of lamps, watts etc
day temps, Rh, Co2 ppms, water source RO or tap, hard /soft?
have you tried to calibrate your Co2 sniffer?

when i 1st went sealed VPD hit me at Rh and temps that never affected me unsealed,
I had symptoms your describing below with the mag def.

Originally Posted by newestguy

When the generator ran all new growth would sag, like worse than overwatered, kind of along the lines of stupid bad VPD. They would also occasionally turn around, pray like crazy and look just like a mag def/salt buildup.