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Busting the coco myths.

drgr33nuk

Member
drgr33nuk said:
Hey guys,

Just read this and thought it was worthy of posting here. It's some great info on Coco and explains ALOT !!

http://www.canna-uk.com/growing_on_coco_busting_the_myth


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]WILL FINISH LATER !! This is going to be deep lol

OK so I started this post with a link but got some abuse. So here's my own contribution to this subject. I've worked in the hydroponics industry for around 10 years and have been growing plants for a little longer. I problem solve issues with people on a daily bases at work and have seen many grows over the years. My specialty really is problem solving but I'm what you could call a bit of a jack of all trades (as most are in this game).

What is coco coir ?

Coir peat acts as a multi-purpose soil conditioner and growing medium. Its texture is consistent and uniform and it is a completely homogeneous material. Coco coir is composed of millions of capillary micro-sponges that absorb and hold up to nine times its own weight in water. It has a natural pH of 5.7 to 6.5, plus an unusually high Cation Exchange Capacity and 27% of easily available water. All this ensures that coir peat will hold and release nutrients in solution over an extended period of time without re-watering. << Yes this is a cut / paste job
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History of Coco coir (the growing medium).

Coco has been used by people for centuries to make mats, twine brooms etc. When coconut husks are processed for the valuable fibers inside, the remaining dust like material called coir pith is left over. This was one a waste product often seen as a problem by the coconut industry and burned but during the late 80's dutch researchers (CANNA believe it or not) !! started to experiment with coco pith and dutch commercial lilly & rose growers had adopted coco pith for growing by the mid 90's for it's excellent air / water ratio, it's very slow decomposition rate & it's ability to support and promote root growth.

Many of the early efforts to develop the horticultural use of coco coir as a growing medium foundered, because it was found that some coir dust contained excessively high levels of sodium chloride. Why this should occur is unclear, it seems that coir dust from coconuts grown near the sea contained more sodium chloride than coconuts grown more inland but all contained high levels of sodium chloride. My theory is that coconut palms can thrive in very salty water and water is a resource. If they can tolerate and thrive in seawater I would of thought this is what they receive in some plantations. Good suppliers are always looking for the best quality coco (normally sourced in the coconut triangle region located in the west of sri lanka). I would assume they use less sea water there ? Also I have read the largest stockpiles of coco pith were the first to be exploited and these were the oldest. Some of these coir dumps were reputedly over 100 years old and all of this resulted in coir as a horticultural growing medium getting very poor press.

To overcome this, buffered coir was introduced. This is ‘manufactured’ by using nitrate solutions to leach out any sodium chloride from the coir dust, and then leaching out excess nitrates again with fresh water. At the same time, this will also remove any excess potassium. Coir needs to be buffered to offset the sodium chloride levels and prepares the medium with the right ions to activate & facilitate adequate cation exchange capacity (CEC).

Here is the science ... Sodium chloride + Calcium nitrate = Sodium nitrate + Calcium Chloride.

2NaCl + Ca(NO3)2 = 2NaNO3 +CaCl2

The calcium chloride is left behind and the sodium now bound to nitrogen is washed away (nitrates are more soluble in water). The flush also washes out unwanted excessive potassium but no exchange happens here except water washes it away. I would like to add CaCI2 is not the only thing used in the process MgCl2 is also used in exactly the same way.

Suppose thats my first myth buster lol
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When coco is buffered sodium is leached by chemical means (Calcium / Magnesium Chloride) and potassium is washed out.

What are cations and how does coir exchange them ?

So lets start at the beginning what is an ION ? An ion is an atom or molecule in which the total number of electrons is not equal to the total number of protons, giving the atom a net positive or negative electrical charge. Ions can be created by both chemical and physical means. (Wiki)

So we now know what an ION is whats a cation ?

A cation is an ion with fewer electrons than protons, giving it a positive charge. Plants exploit this to take nutrients up through the root hairs where root hairs pump hydrogen ions (H+/-) out through proton pumps. These hydrogen ions are released to displace cations attached to negatively charged soil particles (in normal conditions) so that the cations are available for uptake by the root. This also works in reverse and the name for a negative charged element is an anion. A bit out of scope for this article but this is one factor that causes PH to fluctuate in hydroponics.

So what the fook is CEC and why does a high CEC help my plants grow ?

So to recap, “cations” are positively charged ions, such as Calcium, Magnesium, Sodium, and Potassium. the CEC is the ability of a media to hold onto these elements in a matrix, releasing them as required by your plants.

The buffering process above fills this reserve matrix with calcium & magnesium, assisting absorption during the crop cycle.

Hopefully this explains a bit of history and the process / science behind buffering coir and the importance of using a good quality coco for your plants ? Now lets get down to busting some myths !!
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Coco coir is good for how long ?

Well I've heard & read lots of opinions on this subject I also have my own experiences so here we go. First lets look at what happens when coco coir is harvested and prepared for use.

The very first process is to allow the coco coir to decompose. The first part of decomposition is very fast (from several months to around 3 years) but slows down considerably as the supply of readily decomposable organic matter gets exhausted. Sugars, water-soluble nitrogenous compounds are decomposed first at rapid rate, while insoluble compounds such as lignin etc, are decomposed later slowly. During this process the coco acquires some of its usable characteristics such as better moisture retention, beneficial bacteria's + fungi grows and the coir structure is stabilized. Now to try and explain this process would be silly as different companies have different processes but the end product is the same, coco coir ready for buffering.

It's probably worth mentioning now that because the boom in coco coir being used for horticulture over the years the large coir stores are long gone so some low grade coco is processed and sent out before this process has finished. This results in Nitrogen being used for the remaining decomposition process and becomes in competition with your plants. If you experience unexplained yellowing (N def) early into your coco grow this is probably the reason why.

Okey ... so we now know how coco starts to break down and what's left behind is beneficial to plants but how long before it becomes unusable for hydroponics ? Well honest answer I haven't got a clue !! :D I've kept cactus plants in coco 5 years + with no problem with decomposition BUT decomposition speed is all based on the micro life active in the coco breaking down the matter << 'lamens' so the wetter you keep the coco the faster the decomposition.

Cactus require little water as they store lots in the plant but cannabis doesn't have massive amounts of water storage space so you have to run your coir wetter. In theory coir should take around 20 years to break down to the point of loosing all it's ability to harbour healthy plants but the choice is yours. My opinion 3 years would cause no problems what so ever but that's MY OPINION !! Others may have other views and I'm always open to expanding my knowledge through others experiences.

Coco coir wet /dry cycles ?

Ok this one is another question that keeps coming up. And lots of mixed views on feed times, how wet or dry to keep media, what happens when coco dry's out too often. So here we go again.

Mentioned before coir holds around nine times it's mass in water due to it's composition of micro sponges while holding more than enough air to support healthy root growth. Because of this it is very hard (not impossible) to over water coco coir. It's a myth you can't overwater coco because you can. Root hairs will die back and this will affect uptake of nutrients as well as leave roots weak and open to infection.

Taking this into consideration you will never equate feeding to a perfect TIMED feeding schedule because every room has different microclimates. The plant will use more water in hot conditions and require a more aggressive feeding schedule as well as a lower ec to compensate. It's the biggest mistake everyone I meet makes is to try and come up with a set schedule when so many variables are in on the equation. And the two biggest fails are the thinking that plants require the same feeding schedule whatever the weather & more plants = bigger yields (indoors). I suppose it comes with experience. Another myth busted ! No one has the ultimate feeding schedule for any media because it doesn't exist !!

So what do you do !! You use a more constant method of measure, weight and I would say water whenever your media has lost 40 - 60% of the maximum water it will hold against gravity. Quite frankly you don't need to be as accurate as you think and I'm not saying get your scales out and weigh your pots !! But you can guess by lifting the pot and getting to know the weight of the pot full and judge it from that really. My granddad calls it the kick test bless him. He gives a pot a tap with his foot and if it moves it's ready for water. Not very scientific but a very effective way of judging watering times in his garden.

It's a myth that you should avoid prolonged contact with nutrient enriched solution due to the CEC. Buffered coco has had it's reserves filled with Ca, Mg and naturally present K. The ion exchange is between the coco and the plant and the plant will take what it needs when it needs it simple.

Also I've read several reasons why companies recommend 20% run off. I would say this has to do with the nature of coco. In my opinion its in the passive hydroponics family of growing. As explained plants release charges hydrocarbons to take nutrients from the soil. This also happens in coco but only for certain elements. The rest are chelated and are available to the plant regardless of ion exchange.

The thing is that is that these hydrocarbons are not all being used and build up in your coco. By giving the coco 20% run to waste you are flushing these hydrocarbons away as they are attracted to the elements in your nutrients and are pulled through the media. Because of this we can quickly bust another myth :D Coco DOES NOT require flushing with plain water !!. By dropping your EC your actually upsetting the balance between your plants and coco cause havoc with nutrient uptake. Explaining this is again out of scope of this little post but here's a wiki link to read more ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_pressure

Again another myth busted coco coir does not require flushing excess salts if used correctly !

again back later to bust more myths lol !!
 
Last edited:

hush

Señor Member
Veteran
All you did was link to Canna's website? Oh I see, it's redirecting us. So yeah, your link sucks dude. :tiphat:
 
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DoubleDDsNuggs

what they mean is they thought you were going to write about it yourself or have an amazing link to something that is not trying to sell you their expensive coco media or nutes.
 
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DoubleDDsNuggs

of course Canna is going to say it's easy to grow in coco (only if your buy theirs). my advice: get your info from .edu or .org websites or use google scholar search for peer reviewed articles. heck you can even search these forums or ask the questions your looking for! but if you post from a website that is trying to sell you something, their advice is not all that great. sometimes it's not bad either, but when using it as an accurate source of information, people might say you fell for their marketing schemes.
 

drgr33nuk

Member
Sorry if this left a bad taste in your mouths guys :( It's good information on general if you read the article without the canna sales patter ;). Everything in the article is good except the CANNA is the only way to go crap at the end lol.

Maybe I'll write my thoughts on coco and different brands later this evening if I'm not too busy.
 

drgr33nuk

Member
well heres an interesting article about peat vs coco and it even uses canna coco in the trial. it studies various products including sunshine mix. peat won. that's what i use.
http://cpl.usu.edu/files/publications/factsheet/pub__9468201.pdf

This experiment uses 50/50 perlite coco and uses the same NPK profile for all media's. In my opinion it's not a good trial but thats my opinion.

And I didn't post this to get into an discussion about medias and what one rules them all lol !

Here's some pepper plants the same age one in peat / perlite and the other in straight coco (gold label) using vitalink nutrients correct for the media.
 

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Granger2

Active member
Veteran
That "study" has been floating around for 10 years, and has been bogus all along. What drgr33nuk said is true. But the really glaring thing is that the plants were not given Mg, and the nute had 20% K. Of course the plants were sick. Those 2 factors would astonish even the most novice coco users. The Mg vs. K is the first thing to address when using coco.

I'll say this. My production went way up when I switched to coco. I even did a side by side with 2 strains [Buddha Cheese, Sensi NL5xHaze] last crop and re-verified the yield difference. The soil plants were very healthy, but produced about 60% of what their twin sisters did in coco. And BTW, the coco buds were at least as tasty and potent as the peat potting soil buds [both got organic nutes]. Good luck. -granger
 
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DoubleDDsNuggs

I think my response was misinterpreted or poorly communicated. everyone was giving the original poster crap without really letting him know why they thought the link sucked. I only took that article to post as an example of what type of stuff we were expecting instead of the canna info. I posted it shortly after and only skimmed it. I wasn't trying to argue which was better and I'm sorry it came out like that. coco produces great results as long as you know what you're doing and understand the medium.
 

drgr33nuk

Member
I think my response was misinterpreted or poorly communicated. everyone was giving the original poster crap without really letting him know why they thought the link sucked. I only took that article to post as an example of what type of stuff we were expecting instead of the canna info. I posted it shortly after and only skimmed it. I wasn't trying to argue which was better and I'm sorry it came out like that. coco produces great results as long as you know what you're doing and understand the medium.

Hey don't feel the need to apologize and respect for having an opinion !!
 

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