[gaiusmarius]

Originally Posted by Fighting Buddha

I read his posts, they go from condescending to oh I'm really I nice guy, poor fn me I work to hard and I'm gonna set the world on fire. yada yada yada!

ok you've had your say, time to cut the crap and move on, or suffer the consequences. no one is interested in reading your trolling posts anymore.

[VerdantGreen]

i have to say that i would have spent more money on seeds over the years if i could have found better pics and descriptions of what i was buying.

As someone who sells a few seeds nowadays i always grow some out and post the pics so as people have some idea of what to expect.
That said i agree that independent grows are even better, and i send a lot of free seeds out to people who promise to grow them out and post pics. some will do as they have promised but the vast majority just keep the seeds and dont bother. i reckon i get a 20% hit rate from sending out seeds for test grows - which is a shame as its quite expensive and time consuming to stealth them up properly and send - often overseas.

VG

[SGS]

Originally Posted by Yes4Prop215

thats because most "breeders" are not real breeders, just pollen chuckers trying to cash in on hype and ignorance.

theres only a few breeders out there who actually even post pics of the females they use, let alone the males, and let alone phenos!!

if some of these pollen chuckin hacks posted pics of what phenos to expect out of their latest sour cookie kush killer kyrptonite than most people wouldn't even buy!

i dont even sell seeds and even i have the ability to post pics of random phenos that come out of my creations, so its utterly pathetic that most breeders have like 40+ strains for sale yet only have a handful of pics.

This is perfectly said...
Most people selling seed these days are selling them with marketing hype... taking a well known strain and mashing them with others..

I have done countless crosses resulting in unfavorable phenos to the point where they are worthless and the cross is a dead end.. did I ever release them? .. NO. As for all the stains that are sold under the SGS name at Seedbay.. well they arnt MINE! long story short.. and the reason I don't post much on here anymore.. Mitch Conner aka Joel... went to Spain with Thieving ConMan aka JB.. and made a shit ton of seeds of peoples stock including my own and sold them under the breeders name through the SD website... how do I know this is true cause it happened to me! They made crosses that I had no clue about and sold them to distributors.
I have only sold seed here at Seedbay.. but now you can find SGS stock in many places... so im sorry if anyone has gotten anything else other then my stock.. which I haven't sold in over 2.5 YEARS!

Sorry back on topic...

Its not like the good old days where strains were bred to be STABLE upon release... back then they wanted the consumer to get exactly what they paid for and accuracy of the description actually meant something... Now... if you get get 1 female out of a pack that is kinda remotely like the description breeders say job well done! I say wtf! is this???

Some variation is expectable but must be within limits of the breeders description... this is one of the first things that would be wonderful to see changed...

Its my hope that one day soon with all that is changing in the laws that people will wake up and realize the value of stability again and real breeders will step forward to do the work that is required... yes stable F1s are viable growing stock... but making a true F1 requires 2 stable lines.. otherwise phenos here we come!
And keeping the same mother and father to continue to make the same seeds as released time and time again... is very labor intensive and hard to do for most breeders today. But it can be done...


anyway my 2 cents
SGS

[Yes4Prop215]

Originally Posted by GeorgeWBush

you mean real breeders like Berner and the rest of those droopy drawered retards who can't even speak english correctly ? that what you mean by real breeder ?

no where have i ever said berner was a breeder, he's into marketing and merchandise sales, not the seed business.

however if your talking about jigga, i guess he's a droopy drawered retard who just signed a 6 figure contract to work with a VC/corporate backed marijuana company running their entire genetics department, well thats up for you to decide. i have no opinion anymore on whether they are good breeders or not, i simply dont care. regardless of your hate, they are out there getting serious legit money while you are sitting there hating..

[GeorgeWBush]

Originally Posted by Yes4Prop215

no where have i ever said berner was a breeder, he's into marketing and merchandise sales, not the seed business.

however if your talking about jigga, i guess he's a droopy drawered retard who just signed a 6 figure contract to work with a VC/corporate backed marijuana company running their entire genetics department, well thats up for you to decide. i have no opinion anymore on whether they are good breeders or not, i simply dont care. regardless of your hate, they are out there getting serious legit money while you are sitting there hating..

fair enough can't argue with success...same time tho it's a little hypocritical to preach about real breeding when you're defending someone who doesn't know the difference between a f1 and a bx

Originally Posted by theJointedOne

yup

heck even small time breeders have no excuse if they expect folks to pay for seed, imho. Unless the seed co offers a steep discount for untested, undocumented creations, then imho they owe it to the customer, if for nothing more than to build and maintain integrity in our little cannabis world

...i guess this industry has been in the gray area for so long, people just accept the fact that you can get ripped off and it's all 'just part of the industry'. Id say most (not all) of those seed co's in Amsterdam and spain are pathetic pieces of this shitstem


soon that will be the old way.

Weren't you the one who was calling me a complainer for 'complaining' about Afficionado not having the ability to share some pictures.......

weird?

[RandomMan]

Originally Posted by Coba

[b]
Karma Genetics is fairly good about doing that.
Karma Genetics Strain Info, Listings, And all........

This. /\ /\

I joined the mag only for the chance to talk to a few of the guys who really put in work. Been reading for years but understand the value of input from breeders like Karma.

Much respect to any breeder willing to chime into an online conversation/forum in hopes of helping/educating their customers.

Green vibes to all.....

[ElusiveQuark]

I find it very cool that I can post something on ICMAG and receive responses from people like Chimera and SamtheSkunkman.

If there were a comprehensive, succinct database containing, for example: genealogy, terp profile, keywords for characteristics, and pics of known noteworthy phenos, who would be the "official" source for that data? Is there already an official database?

[Pepe le skunk]

It is possible to post pictures and descriptions of pheno's by a breeder and some have listed specific traits they bred for when making strains.
s-1 and F1's are easier and more consistant.
With poly hybrids, multiple pheno's can make it harder to specify specific traits or phenos to look for. However it can still be done.

Some breeders have great f-1 hybrids or ibl's. Others have specific strains. And others have poly hybrids. Some have all of the above in their lineup. Let that be your guide as to what you are after. Then select.

If you cannot choose a strain or breeder then you have not done enough research.

One example of a breeder, who I will not mention, but like his work, he and I had a nice discussion of a strain he was testing and we were looking at the specific pheno expressions. I had recognized a specific trait found in blueberry crosses, stacking calax growth, and the difference between the flower building of that sativa, and the airier growth of hairier varieties found in the 2nd parent used. The breeder even posted the original parents so we could compare the offspring to it's parents and find where hidden genetics showed in the offspring but where hidden in the parents used and not expressed in the f1 parent.

Even if the results were not great (ie hermy, ect) the breeder could help pinpoint specific pheno's most likely to produce the hermy genes. This also will help him in selecting for traits and parents in the future.

A few breeders are doing the extra work and some feel they don't have too. Some stock is stable and probably don't have too. Some as stated above are just hacks that toss pollen. It's up to you to do the research and choose wisely grasshopper, or you could end up with a room full of seeded hermies ready to be made into butter.

One last reason breeders don't want to discuss pheno's is because they know the next hack is just minutes away from stealing their genetics. Ripping it off, reselling there best strain, and they don't want them to have an easy time doing it. We all know this has happened many times.
Even if they are not the same strain and cost half the amount, the breeder who did all the work gets hurt and they have seen it all happen in this industry.

[KingCola]

Originally Posted by HidingInTheHaze

fwiw even the "real breeders" here dont post pics and cant even give you the true lineage or even a blurb about the parents they used. When asked repeatedly for months, all we get is condescending replies and the questions brushed off like you are a bother.

I think some of the up and coming small time seed makers here have more on the ball and care far more then some of the old timers in the game that ride on reputation.

i totally agree, breeders have been playing a game of "hide the phenotypes" since the start..

there are a few breeders out there that actually take the time to breed for more than 1 generation, stabilize, but most breeders do not & will never admit it !

also it is no secret, that the seed bizz is all about supply & demand, i know for a fact that Switzerland has been supplying breeders/seed banks with most of there seeds for decades now..

the plants you see in the breeder pics, are selected out of the very best plants, in reality tho that phenotype appears like only 10% of the time..