[meadowman]

can we grow tobacco without federal permits?

[shaggyballs]

Originally Posted by SirStynkalot

DO be absorbed.

The medical marijuana initiatives were just plain bad medicine. With it legalized you may have to look for a new dispensary again but the techniques are all the same. The only differences are you'll pay more and you'll get a higher quality product in terms of QA and testing.

Right now the medical market's all bs and hype, not scientific minds working on experimental treatments. It's turning in to businessmen pushing bs and hype as much as possible and hiring scientists only when absolutely required. Seems about a wash to me if you just don't care whether your weed is moldy (gotten moldy weed from 3 local dispensaries so far - that won't be flyin).

I take it you grow moldy weed for yourself.
Who better to do quality control than the person consuming it.
What you suggest is to let walmart decide what kind of cannabis I use.

And when big companies have control you always get a better product at a lower price???

Have you heard of the word monopoly?

Don't know about you but the dispenseries around here supply junk at high dollar prices.

If that is what your after than you can have it.

Me I say leave my medicine alone.
Decriminalize!!

[hush]

Originally Posted by meadowman

can we grow tobacco without federal permits?

^ No. And any business that involves plants, whether it is a nursery, or a farm, or a garden retail center, is required to pay lots of money annually for inspections and fees and taxes. There's no getting around that. Go hang around the gardenweb forums and look and see how many small-time gardeners are complaining about how all the inspections and fees are preventing them from being able to open their own business, while the big box stores are thriving. It's because government regulations require the same amount of money from any business for these inspections... doesn't matter if you're Walmart or some little old lady, you have to pay the same amounts of money.

Everyone would be better suited fighting the government's regulations on the agriculture industries instead of conspiring to keep cannabis illegal.

[HidingInTheHaze]

Originally Posted by hush

^ No. And any business that involves plants, whether it is a nursery, or a farm, or a garden retail center, is required to pay lots of money annually for inspections and fees and taxes. There's no getting around that. Go hang around the gardenweb forums and look and see how many small-time gardeners are complaining about how all the inspections and fees are preventing them from being able to open their own business, while the big box stores are thriving. It's because government regulations require the same amount of money from any business for these inspections... doesn't matter if you're Walmart or some little old lady, you have to pay the same amounts of money.

Everyone would be better suited fighting the government's regulations on the agriculture industries instead of conspiring to keep cannabis illegal.

I guess what we can take from this is that they have already lost their rights, and we stand to do the same if we do not learn from their mistakes. Maybe it's not the best strategy to jump at the first deal that's put on the table, they look at us like a bunch of stupid stoners, why prove them right.

They know this commodity is worth billions, that's why they are salivating at the thought of taking it over and controlling it. If they could do anything right I might give them the benefit of the doubt but just look at the crippled economy and the billion dollar obamacare fiasco, proof positive they suck. They look at Marijuana as the next big bail out, it's not that they actually care if you get to smoke or grow weed they just want you to pay taxes on it.

[SirStynkalot]

In response to your earlier post, I just went on a dispensary crawl through Denver last week. I stand by it. There are businessmen with no growing experience in the business and growers with lots of experience in the business. The businessmen can put out B grade at prices that are pretty close to what they are now. The old heads put out A grade and charge out the backside for it. The difference in WA is that it ALL has to be tested so if you know the active chemicals you're looking for in your medicine you won't have a problem finding them. It's marked on the front of the bag. That's what makes the biggest difference to me - can I get something that will fill my needs at a comparable price? I think I'll be able to.

As far as government having more power over our medicine, I don't much care either way. Not a big fan of the taxes but I think the mandatory independent testing will do wonders for treatment purposes. I DO want doctors to have more power over our medicine.

Originally Posted by shaggyballs

I take it you grow moldy weed for yourself.
Who better to do quality control than the person consuming it.
What you suggest is to let walmart decide what kind of cannabis I use.

And when big companies have control you always get a better product at a lower price???

Have you heard of the word monopoly?

Don't know about you but the dispenseries around here supply junk at high dollar prices.

If that is what your after than you can have it.

Me I say leave my medicine alone.
Decriminalize!!

Uh, few things. First and most important I worded strongly but I have nothing against you guys personally. I enjoy spirited debate and would hope you all take my difference of opinion in that light.

1. The point of quality control is that the quality is good before it gets to the consumer. I think we have an irreconcilable difference if you believe hobbyists can produce the same results as professionals in any field.

2. The price is going to be worse. No argument there. If you can do it for yourself it's always going to be cheaper. The problem isn't people growing some plants for themselves, it's people claiming they need 3/4 lb per month for "medical purposes," growing more than that already ridiculously high bar, and then selling the difference. You're not allowed to sell any other personal prescription in this country.

Plus, you know, you'd think if patients were really growing for specific conditions they'd welcome the opportunity to buy medicine that has a guaranteed content analysis proving it will work for their condition. So much resistance against that makes me think a lot of patients aren't really hurting. Instead what I see at dispensaries are commercial varieties for miles. High potency, low medical benefit weed is ALL people seem interested in. If they actually are after medicine why aren't they buying medicine? I go to buy my damned medicine and they can't stock it because there's no demand for marijuana with fucking anti-inflammatory properties. Not bitter or anything. Oh no. I love being in constant pain. But I'll believe that more than about 10% of the patients in my state actually need their card and aren't just getting it for financial or egotistical reasons when pigs fly.

3. No monopolies are allowed in my state and competition between growers is intense. Even current dispensaries won't buy truly bad weed, but the stuff that's on the top shelf at local dispensaries is grown by professional growers, not hobbyists. The difference in the finished product between the two is plain as day. And for what it's worth, anyway, in most of WA as far as I've seen the quality at local dispensaries is much better than it was a couple years ago. Most stores have selections I'd consider "B" grade. Worse than I could make myself but not by as much as it used to be.

4. All I'm after is treating my pain with as little functional impairment from the medicine I have to use as possible. The current dispensary system in my state is not meeting that need.

[hush]

Yes, the real problem here is government and big-business sucking each others dicks. Money buys legislation. So big business has lobbied for all sorts of fees and inspections and so forth that they know the average person can't afford, yet is chump change to them. That is a much bigger conversation than we are having here.

I am not out to change anyone's views, because I've learned how tenaciously people cling to theirs... but at least let all the information be put forth: As of right now, it is illegal, in WAY more places than it's not, and people are going to jail for not only growing it but possessing the end product as well... so if we allow for legalization, all that will happen is people will stop going to jail for it. Of course, the big picture wouldn't be fixed yet... but it would be, unarguably, a step forward. The only way to see it otherwise is to focus on how legalization will cut into my homegrown profits. I can't see any other way that this reasoning would compute?

[Hank Hemp]

I just want to grow me enough reefer for my Old Lady and me. If I could grow just a few out of doors I wouldn't have to grow indoors. Wait a minute, I'm preaching to the choir ain't I. Bottom line is I want the copters to not be a cause for concern. Know what I mean?

[shaggyballs]

Originally Posted by SirStynkalot

In response to your earlier post, I just went on a dispensary crawl through Denver last week. I stand by it. There are businessmen with no growing experience in the business and growers with lots of experience in the business.
The people in CO. that are given a license to grow because they have demonstrated impeccable growing skill or they got appointed by someone they paid off! You are calling them professional growers.Check out who is growing legal cannabis in CO. then you decide.
The businessmen can put out B grade at prices that are pretty close to what they are now. The old heads put out A grade and charge out the backside for it.
So you say lower quality for less is a good thing?
I know people that will sell ya all the dirt weed you are willing to buy.CHEAP
The difference in WA is that it ALL has to be tested so if you know the active chemicals you're looking for in your medicine you won't have a problem finding them.
I am all for testing (but we can't get accurate results from them now...how will legalization change that?)
It's marked on the front of the bag. That's what makes the biggest difference to me -So if the government says it is safe than you trust them???
We see how well that works in the pharmaceutical industry.(new lawsuits against drug manufacturers every day.You would put you faith in those people??really??
can I get something that will fill my needs at a comparable price? I think I'll be able to.

In Canada you get what they send in the mail you and if you don't like it they take your license away!!
So I guess you are saying you will accept anything just as long as it is legal.

As far as government having more power over our medicine, I don't much care either way. Not a big fan of the taxes but I think the mandatory independent testing will do wonders for treatment purposes.
The fix for this is simple...just don't purchase it if it was not tested. Or have it tested yourself.
The law shouldn't need to be changed ...if 1 place tests their product then shop there if it is not tested keep on moving!
My stuff I grow for myself,I have no worries about,cause I grew it for myself!!!Do you really think the government won't lie??Really??
I DO want doctors to have more power over our medicine.
I personally want to be in complete charge of all thing I put in my body! Not a government agency!

I love my country but fear my government(cameras everywhere are for your safety??




Uh, few things. First and most important I worded strongly but I have nothing against you guys personally. I enjoy spirited debate and would hope you all take my difference of opinion in that light.

1. The point of quality control is that the quality is good before it gets to the consumer. I think we have an irreconcilable difference if you believe hobbyists can produce the same results as professionals in any field.

You think this is true??
You think you get a healthier product from a professional chicken farm??
They grow chickens with no beaks pump them full of nasty chemicals and sit in a tiny cage till death!

A farmer or hobbyist as you call them would not tollerate such action!

So called professionals in the beef industry are responsible for pink slime!!

Are you really suggesting we trust these type of people implicitly?

2. The price is going to be worse. No argument there. If you can do it for yourself it's always going to be cheaper. The problem isn't people growing some plants for themselves, it's people claiming they need 3/4 lb per month for "medical purposes," growing more than that already ridiculously high bar, and then selling the difference. You're not allowed to sell any other personal prescription in this country.

I don't agree with this practice either.
And this effects you personally how??

Plus, you know, you'd think if patients were really growing for specific conditions they'd welcome the opportunity to buy medicine that has a guaranteed content analysis proving it will work for their condition. Again I am all for voluntary testing. So much resistance against that makes me think a lot of patients aren't really hurting. Instead what I see at dispensaries are commercial varieties for miles. High potency, low medical benefit weed is ALL people seem interested in. If they actually are after medicine why aren't they buying medicine?Ya I know Vicodine is the way to go not addicting or harmful. I go to buy my damned medicine and they can't stock it because there's no demand for marijuana with fucking anti-inflammatory properties. Not bitter or anything. Oh no. I love being in constant pain. But I'll believe that more than about 10% of the patients in my state actually need their card and aren't just getting it for financial or egotistical reasons when pigs fly.

So your concern is mostly that others are not doing that they should not be.

3. No monopolies are allowed in my state and competition between growers is intense.I was under the impression that growers were appointed in CO. Even current dispensaries won't buy truly bad weed, but the stuff that's on the top shelf at local dispensaries is grown by professional growers, not hobbyists.How can you be sure they are professionals?? did you see their credentials? If not you are speculating!The difference in the finished product between the two is plain as day. And for what it's worth, anyway, in most of WA as far as I've seen the quality at local dispensaries is much better than it was a couple years ago. Most stores have selections I'd consider "B" grade. If you don't like the selection at any store beer store or otherwise go to another one and soon the place with poor selection will go out of business. Just like any company in the real world! Worse than I could make myself but not by as much as it used to be.

4. All I'm after is treating my pain with as little functional impairment from the medicine I have to use as possible. The current dispensary system in my state is not meeting that need.

It is funny you say that I am meeting my own need just fine but you want the government to change things for me...so it will suite your needs better!

Just listen to the way that sounds.

[iBogart]

The horse is dead on this debate. It has to be.

The simple answer is regulate it like alcohol. Done. Now everybody get busy!

[hush]

I sometimes wonder how many of the bootlegger gangsters back in 1933 were going around telling people to "vote NO on amendment 21."