[agito]

Interesting read thanks.

[offthehook]

Originally Posted by sprinkl

Sorry but that is nonsense. There are only one or two genes that cause a plant to autoflower. They dont affect potency. Pure ruderalis is to me the same as hemp and look what potent drug strains were created out of those over thousands of years.
The more generations we are removed from the rudi ancestors the more potent they will become. As long as breeders dont cross auto with auto to make new strains, that is lazy bullshit. Cross auto with potent photo and inbreed for 3 gens, repeat. It takes more work than 99% of seeds that are on the market but the results are great.
Last year i grew lowryder2 and easy rider and was impressed by the potency. Those are only two generations removed. Been getting high on the leaves for over a month now.
For outdoor growing above 40-50degrees north they have huge potential. They will be more potent and aromatic than any strain finishing end september or later simply because they have more light hours and heat when finishing.
If you have a heated greenhouse with supplemental lighting it would be a waste to grow auto's as you might as well grow any photo plant, and let them become huge.

Now we just need more breeders that stabilize the strains rather than hybridizing over and over. Preferably with sativa dom. strains. Oh how I dream of a 95%+ pure auto ssh, growing to 2 meters and yielding indoor quality buds by september 1st. :-)

Now why would you prefere Stabilising Auto's over Hybridising them?

Lemme tell you this: Stabilising them is the biggest pain in the ass to do with Auto's, not to mention how much time of your life you need to put in that, and how total fucking boring this all is.

Thousands upon thousands of plants, separation of plots to avoid direct inbreds, all to select just a few to make any progress and again and again with no any real significance at moving forwards?
I'm sure you would want breeders to do that for ya. Lol

But to achieve exactly what?... Because you have this lill fancy going on?

I repeat, for what?

Hybridising any time mate.^^

And what are your arguments to why this would be second to Stabillising?

PS: It's just the last 3 lines of your post that don't wanna strike with me, all else I happen to agree.

[pinkus]

Originally Posted by outhereinthesun

We here in africa, have only ruderalis and sativas to smoke as dirt weed

Africa AFAIK, has NO ruderalis... it's more a siberian type of thing. In the OLD terminology it would be Sativas and Indicas, but no rudies. THis is from the old RCC marijuana botany tome, but I betting it hasn't changed.

[Jhhnn]

One of the things about autos few consider is planting them outdoors with photo varieties, alternating them in rows. It allows for closer planting & two harvests per season. When the autoflowers mature & are harvested, that's just in time to give the photo variety the room it needs to spread out into flower. It's like intercropping of veggies that home gardeners do all the time.

[sprinkl]

Originally Posted by offthehook

Now why would you prefere Stabilising Auto's over Hybridising them?

Lemme tell you this: Stabilising them is the biggest pain in the ass to do with Auto's, not to mention how much time of your life you need to put in that, and how total fucking boring this all is.

Thousands upon thousands of plants, separation of plots to avoid direct inbreds, all to select just a few to make any progress and again and again with no any real significance at moving forwards?
I'm sure you would want breeders to do that for ya. Lol

But to achieve exactly what?... Because you have this lill fancy going on?
H
I repeat, for what?

Hybridising any time mate.^^

And what are your arguments to why this would be second to Stabillising?

PS: It's just the last 3 lines of your post that don't wanna strike with me, all else I happen to agree.

Well I'm thinking inbreeding, repeatedly crossing the photo plant with its stabilized f3 auto version. Why? Because then you would have a stable strain, from which you could easily make seeds with the same results. And then you could also make true f1 hybrids with other plants with a stable, predictable outcome rather than a bunch of recessive expressions popping up all over the place. All the greatest crosses are made with stable or inbred genes, think skunk, haze, afghan, kush, c99, deepchunk etc. All that polyhybrid mishmash isnt getting us anywhere unless you're up for some extensive pheno hunting, which is no option for auto's. I'm not saying there aren't any gems to be found in poly crosses, rather that gems could be the norm from every seed you pop.

Originally Posted by pinkus

Africa AFAIK, has NO ruderalis... it's more a siberian type of thing. In the OLD terminology it would be Sativas and Indicas, but no rudies. THis is from the old RCC marijuana botany tome, but I betting it hasn't changed.

Lowryder was created with mexican ruderalis. I believe all landraces have rudi in them hidden somewhere. If you look at huge fields like in strainhunters vids there are always extremes to be found, from very sativa to very indica and ruderalis. Its just the environment that makes sativas dominate in tropical, indica in temperate and ruderalis in northern latitudes because they are more fit.

[offthehook]

This time I almost fully agree Sprinkle But just please don't come generally dishing the poly hybrids. Trust me, they sure have got their place ! ^^

Now we only need to find this monkey in the right position and who wants to dedicate 10+ years of his life into it

If people could only share seeds publicly with each other we could team up and make this task a bit more appealing

[Texan]

Originally Posted by pinkus

How does Ruderalis add potency to a photoperiod oriented plant? I can't wait to hear this explanation.

Hello Pinkus, I hope you don't mind me sharing my opinions regarding your post.

When most people think of Cannabis potency, THC levels are obviously what is used as a standard measure. I think it is misleading to only judge a plants potency strictly on THC level.

I know from my own personal research that C. Ruderalis does in fact contain minute amounts of THC. Maybe 1-5% at best.

Also, let us not forget that THC is not the only Cannabanoid that determines the kind of high we get.

I had pure 100% THC injected straight into my blood stream though an IV once many years ago...long story, paid research....But let me tell you, I thought I was going psychotic. It is not a fun high and is absolutely terrifying without the other Cannabanoids (CBD/CBN/etc) present.

It is well known by now that CBD/CBN all have a direct influence on the kind of high/potency we achieve in conjunction with THC.

CBD can help with anxiety/paranoia/insomnia/pain managment/etc and it also helps you feel relaxed/calm compared to injecting pure THC or a pure Sativa variant (high THC/THC-A; low CBD/CBN).

CBN is semi-psychoactive with 10% of the stregnth of THC/helps reduce blood pressure/has anti-depressant properties/etc.

C. Ruderalis is know to have high amounts CBD/CBN which, IMHO, is a great way to get high when crossed with a high THC photo strain.

It, in my opinion, adds personality to the high. Some people want to get that racy/speedy high. Great, go smoke an African strain. Some people want a balanced high with proportionate amounts of a full Cannabanoid profile.

I dunno, I just took some huge hits off a gravity bong so my mind is all over the place.

[Texan]

Originally Posted by pinkus

Africa AFAIK, has NO ruderalis... it's more a siberian type of thing. In the OLD terminology it would be Sativas and Indicas, but no rudies. THis is from the old RCC marijuana botany tome, but I betting it hasn't changed.

In Nigeria, there is a landrace African IBL variety that will flower under 18 hours of light.

[OGEvilgenius]

Originally Posted by sprinkl

Sorry but that is nonsense. There are only one or two genes that cause a plant to autoflower. They dont affect potency. Pure ruderalis is to me the same as hemp and look what potent drug strains were created out of those over thousands of years.
The more generations we are removed from the rudi ancestors the more potent they will become. As long as breeders dont cross auto with auto to make new strains, that is lazy bullshit. Cross auto with potent photo and inbreed for 3 gens, repeat. It takes more work than 99% of seeds that are on the market but the results are great.
Last year i grew lowryder2 and easy rider and was impressed by the potency. Those are only two generations removed. Been getting high on the leaves for over a month now.
For outdoor growing above 40-50degrees north they have huge potential. They will be more potent and aromatic than any strain finishing end september or later simply because they have more light hours and heat when finishing.
If you have a heated greenhouse with supplemental lighting it would be a waste to grow auto's as you might as well grow any photo plant, and let them become huge.

Now we just need more breeders that stabilize the strains rather than hybridizing over and over. Preferably with sativa dom. strains. Oh how I dream of a 95%+ pure auto ssh, growing to 2 meters and yielding indoor quality buds by september 1st. :-)

I get what you're saying, but to suggest they have no effect on potency is actually suggesting more than we really know about them at this point as far as I'm aware. But assuming you are correct, and it's not an unreasonable assumption - there are around 22,000 base pairs in a cannabis plant and presumably quite a few of those are going to effect potency and other desirable or undesirable characteristics.

To think a breeder, who most likely at best is growing a few thousand plants (and that's being super super generous these days with prohibition being what it is) - can successfully segregate these genes without effecting the potency on some level seems a bit unlikely.

To do what autoflower lovers claim is possible and has already been done will require growing millions of plants. That's just the math of it. Do you know any breeders growing millions of plants?

More likely is someone will 'get lucky' and find one plant something close and that line will be used for further breeding and eventually inbreeding depression and other negative recessive traits will show themselves... that's best case I see in the current situation and lord knows where it will come from.

It took thousands of years of breeding by humans to get our drug varieties where they are today. People forget that often indigenous people did a huge amount of selection and it took a really long time for their lines to become the potent drug cultivars they have become.

Realistically autoflowering plants will certainly improve and get closer to their photo counterparts (which largely drug cultivars were/are), but in the current legal climate I don't see them ever actually competing for those looking to get high.

Therapeutically I think they have a lot more potential value.

I've grown quite a few of them, including some of the latest and none really impressed me for my own preferences, but I don't doubt they are useful to others.

[JointOperation]

me personally I spent over 800$ on auto seeds.. grew them all .. and made a few seeds with them.. but none yielded DICK.. but this was 2 years ago.. and I said to myself.. id rather find a fast flowering photo.. then a big yielding auto.. the auto game is great for breeders.. they sell wayyy more seeds to the same people over and over again once someone finds a auto they like.