Dud Identification Collective Knowledge.
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they have been around for some time, several of us have been dealing with them for the last several years but mine have all been sour dub strains only, that's why I cant wrap my head around the todes being the only thing causing this, just don't make sence to me that they would attack a single strain in a room with many strains,
Come to think of it, I think the first time I ever heard the term 'dud' was in a Sour Dub conversation a couple years back lol. I remember seeing a few dudes mentioning it, limited to here at IC at the time I think...
That truly is bizarre... And now it seems (from what I have seen in my limited following of the topic) that the dud issue isn't discriminating between strains necessarily? Yet you still have only had dud issues with Sour Dub and dub hybrids... the fuh?? Meanwhile, appears like this is getting widespread, and makes me wonder as well if there's other issues or certain conditions at play. Something quite sinister, in some cases it seems.
Anyway, I won't fill this thread with my banter, and pointing out the obvious. I'm just another grower that has seen some strange/unexplained happenings in recent times... and will be following along much more closely.
Just hope my Glue doesn't start dudding
ok i did a test of 3 hours in a 112 bath that i couldnt babysit. it was sitting in the room with me while i worked .i intermittently checked it and topped off as necessary to keep at or near 112. it was not perfect, far from it. it wasnt meant to cure nematodes but just something to satisfy curiosity of plant tolerance to temps, while i did other things. it was easy enough but needs to be done more accurately.
the temp went as high as 114. and adropped as low as 107 but it hovered around 112 for the most part.
the plants mostly lived, (3 out of 4) but look hella rough. the ones that lived look clonable.
i will do it again mid next week in an insulated cooler with a constant accurate temp.
so far looks promising as a method.
the nematodes wont like this if they live to have an opinion.
.according to the seed treatment chart they should be 100% erradicated from these temps. saving genetics for a restart may be a real option with no chems if the plants can tolerate well enough to clone at all and it proves as deadly to the nematodes as the literature would suggest.
see chart i posted earlier.
the temp went as high as 114. and adropped as low as 107 but it hovered around 112 for the most part.
the plants mostly lived, (3 out of 4) but look hella rough. the ones that lived look clonable.
i will do it again mid next week in an insulated cooler with a constant accurate temp.
so far looks promising as a method.
the nematodes wont like this if they live to have an opinion.
.according to the seed treatment chart they should be 100% erradicated from these temps. saving genetics for a restart may be a real option with no chems if the plants can tolerate well enough to clone at all and it proves as deadly to the nematodes as the literature would suggest.
see chart i posted earlier.
Joesy,
Maybe it is a genetic defect in sour dubb line. I had problems with Adubb X GDPS, which I think was derived from sour dub. 4 of 10 grew. 1 grew twisted to start, the grew OK. 3 grew twisted to start, and were runts. After reading about nematodes, and not wanting to contaminate, pressure cooked everything (250F).
I think there are numerous problems going on, all being called duds. Sour dubb could be genetic, or parasite and/or virus. The others could be parasite and/or virus.
Like retrogrow reiterates, the only way to be sure is lab testing. Anyone that makes anything, should be glad to pay for testing, and certifying their crop.
I am hobbyist and broke, but understand analyzing problems.
Maybe it is a genetic defect in sour dubb line. I had problems with Adubb X GDPS, which I think was derived from sour dub. 4 of 10 grew. 1 grew twisted to start, the grew OK. 3 grew twisted to start, and were runts. After reading about nematodes, and not wanting to contaminate, pressure cooked everything (250F).
I think there are numerous problems going on, all being called duds. Sour dubb could be genetic, or parasite and/or virus. The others could be parasite and/or virus.
Like retrogrow reiterates, the only way to be sure is lab testing. Anyone that makes anything, should be glad to pay for testing, and certifying their crop.
I am hobbyist and broke, but understand analyzing problems.
waiting on test results now,
We're not now just seeing them. As others have reported, they have been around for awhile, just as broad mites and cyclamen mites have been around for countless millenium, but only became widely known a few years back as legal cannabis has exploded the number of growers, dispensaries, and trading of cuts.
In addition to that, I offered another POSSIBLE reason: triacontanol has become popular in the U.S. in recent years as a growth hormone. Alfalfa is a natural source of triacontanol, and so many people are using alfalfa in their mixes, composts, etc. to get the benefits of triacontanol, without paying the high cost of TRIA products. You can Google that and see it is the case. However, as is well documented, alfalfa is a main host of Ditylenchus dipsaci, therefore I find it reasonable to hypothesise that this sudden increase in the use of alfalfa has contributed to the spread of Ditylenchus dipsaci in cannabis.
if you do want to use alfalfa I would say use the alfalfa pellets, there heated to form the pellet and should kill anything living in alfalfa
See, there you go with the less than truthful statements again. I did not leave a "shitty" message. I left the exact same message that I posted. Exactly. I made sure of that as I guessed you would try to twist it around as you usually do.
You haven't read the thread if you are asking that question.
For sure nematodes have been causing problems with Cannabis for years, I found them in the far past a few times in my grows and even more in others grows, but I don't know if they were stem nematodes Ditylenchus Dipsaci, I just knew they were nematodes and not good ones, I did not ever get them ID'ed.
One thing that should be considered is resistance, to stem nematodes, different clones from different varieties have different levels of resistance, that is why for alfalfa growers they suggest to switch to ASN resistant varieties to reduce the damage to the crop.
If the same is true with Cannabis as I assume it is, then if a clone with low resistance is used for a grow or a hybrid with those genetics in them, you will be much more likely to have problems with nematodes. If the nematode problems are strain related then this could be part or all of the answer.
I also suspect that nematodes and bacterial and fungal pathogens work in synergy to make either much more serious to the host.
Lets get the pest ID which race of Ditylenchus Dipsaci specifically, first and then start listing the plants that have the most serious problems with proven nematodes and see if there is a correlation between variety/clone and the degree of infestations, problems?
I bet there is.
-SamS
One thing that should be considered is resistance, to stem nematodes, different clones from different varieties have different levels of resistance, that is why for alfalfa growers they suggest to switch to ASN resistant varieties to reduce the damage to the crop.
If the same is true with Cannabis as I assume it is, then if a clone with low resistance is used for a grow or a hybrid with those genetics in them, you will be much more likely to have problems with nematodes. If the nematode problems are strain related then this could be part or all of the answer.
I also suspect that nematodes and bacterial and fungal pathogens work in synergy to make either much more serious to the host.
Lets get the pest ID which race of Ditylenchus Dipsaci specifically, first and then start listing the plants that have the most serious problems with proven nematodes and see if there is a correlation between variety/clone and the degree of infestations, problems?
I bet there is.
-SamS
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Please folks, stick to the issues, which are not about who did what or said what to who. The issue is DUD's anything else is just a waste of time, and if you keep it up I will find a way to delete all offending posts even if with valuable info, this is so petty it is not even funny any more. I will also just quite posting in this thread as I find the infighting really stupid, boring, and infantile. Really no one cares about the infighting besides the two posting the fight, take it to PM's if you can't keep your trap shut, we all need to rise above this kind of trivial crap, and I mean everyone, myself included.
-SamS
-SamS
Excellent idea! If you must use alfalfa, pre-heating it would possibly kill the nematodes, although admittedly I know nothing about this process, or the temperatures involved. However, I do know that folks are using regular alfalfa, non-pelleted, which could conceivably be one cause of spreading Ditylenchus dipsaci. It seems a reasonable possibility to me, and it is fairly widespread, or maybe it's better to say it's used by plenty of folks. A Google search will validate this. Also, keep in mind, even in the process of pelleting alfalfa, some nematodes could become airborne before being heated, and some could be in the dessicated/dormancy state, and still get loose. This is known as "anhydrobiosis", and they can survive in this state for years, blowing in the wind.
Also, keep in mind that the nematodes secrete enzymes and plant-affecting hormones as they feed that stunt and swell plant tissues, so keeping aspirin in your rez/feed water would help mitigate this problem, just as it does with broad or cyclamen mites.
So, now the list of pathogens that secrete "toxins"/enzymes/plant-effecting hormones grows to four, to my limited knowledge: broad mites, cyclamen mites, russet mites, and nematodes. No one seems to know exactly what these enzymes are. Could they all be the same? I have no idea.
Most companies have a product with triacontanol, but not sure what GH has. Anyway, it wouldn't be raw alfalfa, although I don't know for certain that whatever process they do to refine it leaves living nematodes, but I really don't think so, as I have used Canna Boost many times with no issues, and it has TRIA in it.
Flora Blend, first ingredient, alfalfa meal.
id be willing to bet this isnt the source of the nematodes. given that this is relatively obscure and gh is not. im doubtful of the ability of the nematodes survival of the extraction methiod.
however the raw alfalfa idea is definitely feasible. we will hopefully know soon enough.
id almost bet that its a different nematode but this is a pretty good theory. especially if it turns out that it was a mistake to say the alfafa nematode actually only reproduces on alfafa. maybe it can also reproduce on cannabis but nobody had figured it out. scientific 'facts" do occasionally change.
I totally agree. I do not have any problem 95% sure. If you banged a whore, wouldn't you monitor her and others health. My paranoia is due to dealing with unknowns. Especially when unknown is highly questionable. It is only prudent, to discard anything, and not risk contamination (on my scale, which is hobbyist).
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Funny! Never used it and never will....
xxxstr8edgexxx- I was wondering why you are doing this for 3 hours? I'm finding thirty minutes is recommended. 110.3 for broad mites and 111.0 for some nematodes. Keeping the temperature constant is the challenge in warm water, insulation should help. I was able to keep cuttings at 109 degrees-111.5 degrees for thirty minutes yesterday, should be a reasonably good test of warm water tolerance. Watched the cuttings for the full half hour with two thermometers to make sure of the high and low temps
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