Dud Identification Collective Knowledge.

high life 45 · May 16, 2014

As an effort to stop the spreading of Ganaj Herpes, come identify and share pic of your duds here.

First help me with this one here. Im calling DUUUUUD! What about you?

This is GG#4

My GG#4 that I got from the cup. Word on the street is Im not the only one here.

Personally I think duds come from bms, but lets not get to worked up about that all yet, lets identify duds first.
Cmon Buds, show us your DUDs! :dancer:

high life 45 · May 16, 2014

Shorter than normal internodal spacing and smaller leaves
woodier stems
brittle stems

Those were terms I think Storm Shadow used that helped me identify my duds.

xxxstr8edgexxx · May 16, 2014

im having trouble understanding from your pic what the problem is. i am running gg4 and mine does look healthier but imnot sure what is so crazy wrong with that one.

high life 45 · May 16, 2014

The first two pics show the smaller internodal space and smaller leafs. This is the part of the plant that is the "dud"

Ill cut it off and take a pic of it by itself so you can clearly see.

The last two pics show much healthier growth, that is non "dud" but very well may have "dud" in its genes.

oldnewfarmer · May 16, 2014

xxxstr8edgexxx said:
im having trouble understanding from your pic what the problem is. i am running gg4 and mine does look healthier but imnot sure what is so crazy wrong with that one.

your cut from the cup? I believe i am a member of D.I.C.K. Pics to come....fellow DICKS...i will have DICK pics this evening

high life 45 · May 16, 2014

Get out of town! Your a DICK also!

Welcome aboard my friend.

high life 45 · May 16, 2014

Heres a better example of the dud branch

Notice the brittle woody stem

View image in gallery

Here is some seemingly healthy normal growth on the same branch

View image in gallery

The dud'd growth, notice the smaller leaves, they dont look as healthy

View image in gallery

Hammerhead · May 16, 2014

short internodal spacing is good in plants. I would not use that as an indication of something bad. Example plants that have huge colas have short internode's with increased yields.

high life 45 · May 16, 2014

Hey PF thanks for stopping by, your right thats not the best description.

The internodal spacing on the dud'd area is shorter than the rest of the plant, of course it will help to have prior knowledge of the strain.

See the right side of the branch with its two "longer" healthier looking growths. That is what the internodal spacing on rest of my gg4 looks like

Look at the left side of the branch.

Does that look like gg4 to you?

Healthy gg4 below. I treated these plants and gave them a heat treatment, after the heat treatment is when the "dudding" appeared. Only on some of the branches on some of the plants.
I was about to take a bunch of clones and monocrop the next round, but I think I will see how this one plays first.

Sam_Skunkman · May 16, 2014

high life 45 said:
As an effort to stop the spreading of Ganaj Herpes, come identify and share pic of your duds here.

First help me with this one here. Im calling DUUUUUD! What about you?

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=53704&pictureid=1252889&thumb=1]View Image[/URL] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=53704&pictureid=1252890&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]
This is GG#4
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=53704&pictureid=1252888&thumb=1]View Image[/URL] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=53704&pictureid=1252891&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]
My GG#4 that I got from the cup. Word on the street is Im not the only one here.

Personally I think duds come from bms, but lets not get to worked up about that all yet, lets identify duds first.
Cmon Buds, show us your DUDs!

What or who is bms?
Is the problem with phenotypic or genotypic expression?
If just phenotypic expression then you can try and clean up the clone by only taking the most healthy fresh vigorus material, rooting it, growing it big, take vigorus materials, grow it big, and repeat the process a few times.
This will often regenerate old weak clones, and restore their vigor and health, like with confused clones repeatedly revegged from flowering plants, or clones left in a really small pot for a year or more, that has all but stopped growing. They can be saved.
Genotypic duds can be tossed unless they have somthing that is wanted and hard to find in other varieties, then capture and use the traits and toss the dud.
-SamS

high life 45 · May 16, 2014

Sam_Skunkman said:
What or who is bms?
Is the problem with phenotypic or genotypic expression?
If just phenotypic expression then you can try and clean up the clone by only taking the most healthy fresh vigorus material, rooting it, growing it big, take vigorus materials, grow it big, and repeat the process a few times.
This will often regenerate old weak clones, and restore their vigor and health, like with confused clones repeatedly revegged from flowering plants, or clones left in a really small pot for a year or more, that has all but stopped growing. They can be saved.
Genotypic duds can be tossed unless they have somthing that is wanted and hard to find in other varieties, then capture and use the traits and toss the dud.
-SamS

Hey Sam!

Broad Mites =bms

It is believed that The toxin bms leave in the plant causes genetic damage/and or leaves a virus in the plant that can cause duds, wether it be a single branch or a whole plant.

RetroGrow · May 16, 2014

The toxin from BMs is destructive to the plant itself. It doesn't leave a virus, AFAIK. The toxins cause the plant to "dud", losing it's smell and potency. This can be largely mitigated by using aspirin, but you still have to get rid of the BMs.
Easy enough to check the plant for BMs. Scope them.

IGROWMYOWN · May 16, 2014

I don't have any of mine but you guys that do still have the LA cup cut I wonder if we can get it lab tested I'm dying to know what it is. I suspect BM toxins as well

high life 45 · May 16, 2014

RetroGrow said:
The toxin from BMs is destructive to the plant itself. It doesn't leave a virus, AFAIK. The toxins cause the plant to "dud", losing it's smell and potency. This can be largely mitigated by using aspirin, but you still have to get rid of the BMs.
Easy enough to check the plant for BMs. Scope them.

yo retro!

what do you think the pics I posted, is that dud'n?

Yes, its best to identify in the first place.

I have a scope in my car most of the time, but not with me at the cup. I flew there.

Greyskull · May 16, 2014

Sam_Skunkman said:
What or who is bms?
Is the problem with phenotypic or genotypic expression?
If just phenotypic expression then you can try and clean up the clone by only taking the most healthy fresh vigorus material, rooting it, growing it big, take vigorus materials, grow it big, and repeat the process a few times.
This will often regenerate old weak clones, and restore their vigor and health, like with confused clones repeatedly revegged from flowering plants, or clones left in a really small pot for a year or more, that has all but stopped growing. They can be saved.
Genotypic duds can be tossed unless they have somthing that is wanted and hard to find in other varieties, then capture and use the traits and toss the dud.
-SamS

It did not start as either a phenotypic or genotypic expression.
It might have been started from broad mites... maybe root aphids... maybe something else - spores? I don't know... but it started as a transmittable issue, much like a virus. It seems that thru breeding (selfing) its reportedly carrying over thru to progeny as well.

So to answer your question as to whether phenotypic or genotypic expression - all i can say from where I sit now, is "yes".

Whatever it is, it is passing around "the community" with some regularity, thru the sharing of clones.

The "Dudding Phenomenom" seems to share traits with Fusarium & verticillium wilt. It acts like herpes - when a clone/plant has "it", so far, it always does, even if its not always showing. When it has "an outbreak", it could be minor and just be a single branch on one plant in a whole crop, or it could be horrific kind where the whole grow of expected diamonds ends up alfalfa & oats.

It'd be great if this problem could truly be isolated/identified and resolved, one way or another.

Props to high life 45 for starting a thread on dudds and getting some knowledgable attention on this thing. Aloha

Greyskull · May 16, 2014

Those fan leaves with the overlapping blades - thats the "webbed" look that screams "I'M A DUDD!!!!"

btw thats high life 45's pic

high life 45 · May 16, 2014

Really?!?! I thought that I had seen that in some uncs pics. Not that he has duds but an overlaying leaf look i thought was a trait of the gg4. Hopefully the experts can chime in here.

Huel Perkins · May 16, 2014

Greyskull said:
View Image

Those fan leaves with the overlapping blades - thats the "webbed" look that screams "I'M A DUDD!!!!"

btw thats high life 45's pic

I could be wrong, but I believe that is just a trait of GG#4. All the GG#4 fan leaves I've seen (including mine) overlap a bit towards the base of the leaf.

Huel Perkins · May 16, 2014

Damn, High Life beat me to it! That's what I get for making coffee and not refreshing the page before I post a comment...

stasis · May 16, 2014

Ya Gotta address the Scourge of Broad Mites. Assume Ya got 'em, in fact. Act preventatively. Watch out for Grow shops, they have 'em many times. People are unaware, and think it is deficiencies, Tobacco Mosaic Virus, or some other disease.. It's BM's, Dudes.

Denial means a failed crop, and maybe best to start in a new space. It's THAT bad, get educated on them, before it's too late. I barely got through them. There are still vestiges of their passing, and I assume I will always have 'em. Even with the clone-dunks in FORBID, sprays of AVID in veg only, and occasional heat treatments, etc. Been infested 2x in my decade plus growing career - in two different States.... Both within the last 3 years, watch out.

Makes Spideys look like a walk in the park.

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