[MJtheIndicator]

Originally Posted by ct guy2

I don't have time to find said sources but I can vouch for the information being accurate, with the 2 known species being glomus intraradices and glomus mossae.

In reading through what Matt Rize put together in a blog concerning inoculants, he states: "Here is what I've gathered from the pros on these inoculant products...

...Only endo mycorrhizae associate with cannabis and Glomus intraradices is the most versatile and aggressive endo strain and is the strain with the highest propagules. You will notice that there are other strains with lower counts. These will still associate and have specific strengths either for certain conditions like soil pH and other environmental conditions or specific plant parameter advantages. Our VAM endo is not fortified with pure cultures of bacteria, although there are beneficial bacteria present in the product. Because they are not cultured individually and then blended in the final product they can't really be guaranteed for specific CFU's and therefore are not listed on the label. That being said, even though G. intraradices is the most aggressive and versatile As far as Trichodermas go, if you search the scientific database you can find examples of mycorrhizae having synergistic effects with them"

This sounds like a manufacturer in conversation with Rize. Note the usage "most versatile and aggressive", this insinuates there are less versatile and less aggressive glomus. Validation comes with the phrase, "other strains with lower counts", this would admit others beyond Glomus intraradices and mosseae do in fact associate with cannabis e.g. pH, environment etc.

I agree that Glomus intraradices and mosseae are the most often tested in relation to metals, cadmiums or pathogens and such efforts therefor present them as the only "worthwhile" fungi. If this is an issue of colonization and symbiosis, it still does not discount the presence of other glomus and/or the pathogens they encounter. We desire obligate symbionts to function fully, but if we get caught up in life cycle or debating an annual vs. perrenial and the true value of symbiosis we are just ignoring a spectrum of fungi and attempting to sell Glomus intraradices and mosseae as the cannabis penicillin.

However, if there is definitive citation showing cannabis does not want to have anything to do with any other AM fungus then I would be delighted to know. If such an article regards symbiosis then I hope I have mentioned such a relationship isn't the knowledge I am pointing to.

When we forage through a forest populated with a one dominant species of tree we do not expect to only find one type of mushroom, but we do find differentiation and varying degrees of symbiosis.

If we are worried trichoderma will bully the mycorrhizae, one solution might be to introduce mycorrhizae first let it establish itself, then present the trichoderma to allow it to either annihilate or morphologically find a way to fit in; survive.

[intotheunknown]

Very interesting thread going, glad its still up and running.

Just picked up some xtreme gardening's brand MYKOS
which contains Glomus intraradices RTI-801 @ 80 spores per gram in powder form.
29.99 at the local dro store

anyone used this stuff yet?
Gonna give it a go, and run a side by side with a 4th run ROLS, and Ill post results if any as I go. But honestly, I dont think I will actually see much of a difference.

[TheyCallMeJJay]

I guess my question would be...Can one apply too much Myco? Such as the Great White product. It's what I've got.

I was looking to apply 4 oz's in 30 gallons and wetting down about 100 gallons of soil.

[Microbeman]

Originally Posted by MJtheIndicator

In reading through what Matt Rize put together in a blog concerning inoculants, he states: "Here is what I've gathered from the pros on these inoculant products...

...Only endo mycorrhizae associate with cannabis and Glomus intraradices is the most versatile and aggressive endo strain and is the strain with the highest propagules. You will notice that there are other strains with lower counts. These will still associate and have specific strengths either for certain conditions like soil pH and other environmental conditions or specific plant parameter advantages. Our VAM endo is not fortified with pure cultures of bacteria, although there are beneficial bacteria present in the product. Because they are not cultured individually and then blended in the final product they can't really be guaranteed for specific CFU's and therefore are not listed on the label. That being said, even though G. intraradices is the most aggressive and versatile As far as Trichodermas go, if you search the scientific database you can find examples of mycorrhizae having synergistic effects with them"

This sounds like a manufacturer in conversation with Rize. Note the usage "most versatile and aggressive", this insinuates there are less versatile and less aggressive glomus. Validation comes with the phrase, "other strains with lower counts", this would admit others beyond Glomus intraradices and mosseae do in fact associate with cannabis e.g. pH, environment etc.

I agree that Glomus intraradices and mosseae are the most often tested in relation to metals, cadmiums or pathogens and such efforts therefor present them as the only "worthwhile" fungi. If this is an issue of colonization and symbiosis, it still does not discount the presence of other glomus and/or the pathogens they encounter. We desire obligate symbionts to function fully, but if we get caught up in life cycle or debating an annual vs. perrenial and the true value of symbiosis we are just ignoring a spectrum of fungi and attempting to sell Glomus intraradices and mosseae as the cannabis penicillin.

However, if there is definitive citation showing cannabis does not want to have anything to do with any other AM fungus then I would be delighted to know. If such an article regards symbiosis then I hope I have mentioned such a relationship isn't the knowledge I am pointing to.

When we forage through a forest populated with a one dominant species of tree we do not expect to only find one type of mushroom, but we do find differentiation and varying degrees of symbiosis.

If we are worried trichoderma will bully the mycorrhizae, one solution might be to introduce mycorrhizae first let it establish itself, then present the trichoderma to allow it to either annihilate or morphologically find a way to fit in; survive.

Reading that Matt Rize stuff is headache city. That quote was taken from me regarding the 2 sorts of endomycorrhizal. It was not intended to mean that it only associates with these two species, as there are many wild species, not even named. The information came from a review of studies of fungal hemp associates and those were overwhelmingly the naturally occurring species. The few others were not commercially available. Because Intraradices are the easiest to obtain commercially in large numbers it makes most sense to use them.

Trichoderma, as you mentioned should be purchased separately IMO.

[MJtheIndicator]

Thank you for your eloquence and clarity Microbeman.

[MJtheIndicator]

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeJJay

I guess my question would be...Can one apply too much Myco? Such as the Great White product. It's what I've got.

I was looking to apply 4 oz's in 30 gallons and wetting down about 100 gallons of soil.

The product contains ectomycorrhiza, which cannabis has no use for. The ecto is taking up space in the propagule count, for cannabis farmers its just filler.

[TheyCallMeJJay]

Originally Posted by MJtheIndicator

The product contains ectomycorrhiza, which cannabis has no use for. The ecto is taking up space in the propagule count, for cannabis farmers its just filler.

I guess that means ok?

[MJtheIndicator]

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeJJay

I guess that means ok?

This is the product's application method

[Swollencalyx]

Great thread! I use Down to Earth and PHC Bio Pac. I feel PHC is to expensive but has huge diversity and is pretty much a tea bag. I have had great results with with BioAG products as well. MycosApply is commercial grade and works well. But like stated earlier. It takes a a long time for myco's, endo and ecto to get established. Recycle that soil, create diversity and you're golden.

[EclipseFour20]

Kinda funny how in an "organic subforum" the discussion is morphing to which "cocktail of mycorrhizae" are best for cannabis plants ("feed the plant" with endo only) and ignoring/discounting/omitting the benefits to the soil ("feed the soil" with both endo/ecto).

Allow me to emphasize a few items from MJ's post--

"...If this is an issue of colonization and symbiosis, it still does not discount the presence of other glomus and/or the pathogens they encounter. We desire obligate symbionts to function fully, but if we get caught up in life cycle or debating an annual vs. perrenial and the true value of symbiosis we are just ignoring a spectrum of fungi and attempting to sell Glomus intraradices and mosseae as the cannabis penicillin.

However, if there is definitive citation showing cannabis does not want to have anything to do with any other AM fungus then I would be delighted to know. If such an article regards symbiosis then I hope I have mentioned such a relationship isn't the knowledge I am pointing to.

When we forage through a forest populated with a one dominant species of tree we do not expect to only find one type of mushroom, but we do find differentiation and varying degrees of symbiosis."

If one wants a complete "symphony of soil"...it seems to me the best option is to have a "full orchestra" (endo/ecto)--than limit oneself to a "string quartet" (endo...no ecto). In otherwords...what is the harm of having both? Having a symbiotic soil relationship that is "more than the plant needs" is not a bad thing in my world. Mimic nature!