What's new
  • Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
  • Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!

Tuning Butane Extraction

M

mofeta

Member
Veteran
This thread is a spin-off from some posts in another thread.

Daub Marley's first post in the "How to make shatter/amber glass" thread.
Daub Marley said:
The problem with cooling it with dry ice is that it will reduce the temperature below butane's boiling point. This keeps it in liquid form and changes the process from a super critical extraction to liquid flow through extraction. This can be compared to the thermos method, but instead of the solvent sitting in the same container with the herbs for a while it just flows through. It is not efficient but, that is the extreme end of cold though, and somewhere in between ambient and dry ice temperature is the sweet spot.
Click to expand...

Second One
Daub Marley said:
What's up sirdabsalot!
I think you might be confusing the pressures/heat of butane and CO2, and there is a great difference in the pressures required to reach supercrital state between the two. If you have ever not packed your material down enough you'll notice that the extraction hardly works at all. Then you pack it in a little more and the extraction works like a charm. The reason is that the pressure was not great enough in the loosely packed material for the butane to reach supercritical pressure. I could be wrong though, and my feeling certainly aren't going to be hurt if you prove that.
Click to expand...

These are really good posts. Thanks to Daub Marley!


We are all familiar with the "WTF, this batch is a totally different consistency, and I did everything the same as I always do!" complaint. The web is full of people going nuts trying to figure out what went wrong.

We also are all familiar the "How does (insert name of oil maker) get those crystal clear, rock hard slabs?" sentiment expressed all over the web.

My experiments lead me to believe that the answers will be revealed by a study of butane's properies as a solvent as temperature and pressure are manipulated.

As in CO2 extractions, you can pick a spot on butane's phase diagram and ask yourself "What kind of solvent is it here?". I am starting to think that there are some spots on butane's diagram where the properties can vary quite a bit in a small area. I think Daub's observations go to this point. I too have noticed a big difference between soaks and other kinds of contact with the herb, where temp/pressure/phase state change during the extraction.

I think that it won't be long until we figure out how to fine tune butane extractions with precision.

What do you think?
 
HashoftheTitans

HashoftheTitans

Member
I believe that the second quote is flawed because the loosely packed trim does not yield less because of pressure. By being packed loosely there are more cavities for the butane to flow through, therefore not saturating the material. When the tube is packed tightly, the butane flows more evenly through the material. I do not believe this plays as much of a role in the closed loop systems, since you have the ability to completely saturate the material. I have been lead to believe that oil dissolves better at higher pressures, but the amount of pressure that you get in an open tube extraction is minimal.
 
M

mofeta

Member
Veteran
Yeah, I am not endorsing what he said in detail, but the main thrust of what he is saying, which I take to be:

"Butane's properties as a solvent seem to vary significantly with relatively small changes in pressure/temperature, and maybe whether there is a phase change (boiling) involved."
 
N

northstate

Member
ICMag Donor
Good subject mofeta. Very puzzled by this and always try to keep improving the tech. but the temp and pressure curve begs to be explored.
 
Daub Marley

Daub Marley

Member
Thanks mofeta. I appreciate the love!
We are all looking to lighten the color of our shatters/waxes, and cooling is a easy way to reduce the solvent's extraction potential, but when we cool too much we change the extraction process from super critical to flow through. So the first question on my mind is where is the sweet spot on the curve? As northstate pointed out it needs to be explored. We cannot explore effectively with a flow through system, but a closed loop system should provide details. Maybe someone with a sealed system can chime in here?
 
Gray Wolf

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
We haven't experimented with heating the butane before injection, but have instead concentrated on chilling it and using longer soak times. We still get excellent aromatics, and light blonde extractions.

We chill the butane storage tank in denatured alcohol and dry ice, which also helps in recovery.
 
Daub Marley

Daub Marley

Member
GW do closed systems use supercritical extraction, or are they just using the liquid phase through soaking? I guess using the soaking method instead of blowing through a packed column could eliminate the pressure variable and allow us to tune in the extent of extraction. The only thing lost is a little extra time.
 
Daub Marley

Daub Marley

Member
Interesting. I wonder if lowering the temp/pressure while staying in the super critical range would make any noticeable difference in the color of the extracts.
 
C

C'Ya

Member
I read somewhere the super critical temp for butane is around 153 C so that would be about 307 F seems pretty hot so I'd say it would probably be dark and goo like, but I wouldn't try the process myself so I wouldn't recommend it.
 
Daub Marley

Daub Marley

Member
C'Ya you cannot have a super-critical temperature without a pressure. Could you also please dig up your source as well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Latest posts

Exquisite Marijuana Seeds Hemp & CBD | Cannoptikum.
Top