Perpetual Grow - How to get the timing right?

I've grown fem seeds SCROG style ever since i started. I felt comfortable not having to keep moms and being able to maximize my limited space by not having to remove males.
But recently i got very interested in some dank REG SEEDS genetics and decided to give em a go.

I can only grow during the winter season, i got one flowering tent (D120) and a smaller veg tent (D100)..
My idea is to plant as many reg seeds as I possible, flip after X(?) weeks of veg, then clone the ones showing female pre flowers. Finish the moms SOG style, while keeping the female clones vegging in the smaller tent. Once the moms are harvested, i'm moving in the 6 best clones and SCROG them for the 2nd run.

Thing is i have never done a SOG or raised a clone before so i need some questions answered for my plan...

1. In my 1st run when i plant the reg seeds, should i fill the 1.20m x 1.20m tent with as many 3.5l pots that can fit? There will be males that will have to be removed so i think i should plant as many as possible?

1. b) If i do have a tent filled with reg seeds, how many days should i veg them? In the tent, their height should be limited. I'm growing some Cheeseberry Haze, Chucky's Bride, Pineapple Diesel, Vortex and Deadhead OG by the way.

2. Will the clones be weaker (or less yielding) when I take them from pre-flowering moms? Or is it a must to take clones before the flip? I've heard of flowering clones having to reveg, taking months to root etc.


3. How big will the clones end up to be 11 weeks after the cut, in the 250w HPS veg cab? 11 weeks includes the 10 weeks it will take the moms to finish plus 1 week of drying in the flowering cab.

4. If the clones end up too big in the veg cab, can I clone them again, to use those new clones as the batch that will replace the moms?


Thanks...

homeboy, if you "hold" clones for 11 weeks theyll outgrow your tent when you put them into veg, let alone the first 10 days of flowering.

id say 2.5 month old clones can be compared to 4- 6 month old seedlinngs, as the clones dont have to "mature" and pick up pace.

perpetual is damn near impossible to do without at least a veg area and a seperate flowering area.

I run a secret jardin ds60 2x2x4'6" tent witha 250 hps in it, a 5x10 closet decked out with a 600 watt hps, and then the mother tent which is a 2x4x4 tent.

the 2x2 tent and the closet are flowering 30 days apart usually, sometimes they are like days or so apart from the start of flowering.

i take clones from mothers, at 3 weeks to finish for whaterver production area im filling up. the only thing that really matters in perpetual, is that you have healthy established clones that are fully rooted to fill in the empty space after harvest.

now you can take the clones in your scenario, at 10 days into flower, youll have a bit of stretch to them, for nice sized bigger clones, that WILL take longer to root, in you case you want to hold the clones back as much as possible without metabolically stunting them.

cooler temps, lower light and light feeding, ive held clones off for 40 days till i moved them to produce.

if your strapped for room, check these out.http://www.thegrowshow.org/shop/demo-sun-hut/

its a 1x1x2 foot sun hut tent. they are about the size of a 5 gallon paint bucket. i used to use one for holding half flats of clones under a 20 watt cfl.

if also flowering in these demo sun huts, with a 65 watt cfl, and yielded about 35 grams dry.

they do perform.
i

From my understanding, a cutting usually takes about 10-14 days to root.
So the clone will actually be more around 9 weeks old, after harvest and drying the first batch. I have no clue but I would be really surprised if those tiny clones will grow that big in the coming 8 weeks, to be compared to 4-6 month old seedlings.
Anyways, I get the feeling they will get big enough.

Would u say that i can even take several clones from the original clone, all during the 11 weeks it takes until the first harvest?
Let's say i find 2 keepers from the first batch. I would then want to take several clones from a single phenotype to be run right after the first batch. Hope that makes sense..

You have a plan very specific to your setup and I can't comment on most of the fine details but I have run perpetual sog for about 5 years so may be able to give some pointers.

Yes you can take clones after flipping. I find it best to take them around day 7 when you do the first round of lollipopping in a sog setup. They will show preflowers but that's ok as I'm not revegging them after they root, they root and get potted up and immeaditely flipped to flower.

It is difficult to get a sog nailed down. I will say I still haven't perfected it even after 5 years and 30+ harvests. Before you venture into perpetual and especially sog, you need to be confident in your ability to get at least 90% clone success every time. This is important.

Again, I don't know how fast your strains veg and how big you get them prior to flip so I can't comment on your timing but a perpetual sog timeline with little to no veg looks something like this. For the sake of discussion lets say youre doing perpetual between 2 flower tents with 30 plants per tent and have a seperate veg tent for cloning/hardening.

This also assumes you have mother plants, I would not recommend trying perpetual sog without mother's and constantly taking clones from flipped plants.

Day 1- take 50 cuts in hopes to get roots on 30 of the strongest cuts.
Day 14- pot up 30 best into small pots to harden off for a few day before potting up again to their flower pots.
Day 17- flip to flower.
Day 25 (flower day 7)- take another 50 cuts from the 30 flowering when you lollipop them.
Day 40 (flower day 21)- clones have rooted so pick the best 30 again to pot up and harden off.
Day 43 (flower day 24)- pot up the 30 and flip to flower.
Day 50 (1st flower day 31, 2nd flower day 7)- take another 50 cuts
Day 64 (1st flower day 45, 2nd flower day 21)- pot up 30 to harden
Day 67 (1st flower day 48, 2nd flower day 24)- if you've done evrything perfect up till now, you have about a week of wiggle room. Harvest 1st flower set at day 55-60 and replace with the 3rd set of clones that are now hardened off.
Day 75 (1st flower harvested, 2nd flower day 32)- take another 30 cuts from 3rd set....repeat.

Notice how you dont have much time to spare if clones don't root or harden off too slow, etc. This is why it's recommended to have another tent with temp mothers that you can clone whenever you need. I do it this way so when I lollipop, all that goes into the trash.

Hope this helps.

Hi G O u could grow seedlings till pre flowers show cull males. Then label each female trip 12 12 fourteen days in take a cut or two off each female label to match mom. as clones will take longer to root giving you more time flower out seedlings then pick the best pheno by then best clones should be big enough to make enough cuts for next cycle . cull plants you don't like and you now have a keeper without havin to keep a mom.Budd

you should have a cut or two of each female phenotype you plan on putting into flower. that way you have the mothers all ready to go and you can just discard the non keeper mothers if you like.

Here is some advanced shit that works, but I don't know how comfortable you are with trying it.

Cut your clones. Seal them in a plastic bag with a small amount of water (several drops). Put them in the fridge. They'll remain viable for 7-10 days for sure, maybe longer. I've never let them go longer than 10 but it's probably doable.

Thanks for all the answers. I didn't mean to abandon this thread.. I'm back now and getting ready for my next run.

So from what I understand i can either veg the seedlings until pre flowers show then take clones, or just induce flowering earlier then take clones from the ones that have shown female flowers.

I just hope the clones wont get weaker or anything like that when they're taken from a plant that's about a week in 12/12.

But it's still unclear to me how big the clones may end up to be 11 weeks after the cut, vegged in the 250w HPS veg cab? 11 weeks includes the 10 weeks it will take the moms to finish plus 1 week of drying in the flowering cab.

Another thing, will vegging clones need daily watering? I think plants in coco are best when watered a lot, but can i get away with watering those clones every few days?

You'll want to keep watering to once or twice a week until the clones are well rooted in the pots, the wet/dry cycles will encourage roots to grow and seek out the water. As for cloning, I use an EZ Cloner and usually they are throwing roots after 2 weeks, then transplant them in some pots and it usually takes another week or so for the shock to wear off and they start growing. So assuming you take those 3 weeks out of your 11 week budget you got 2 months.... your gonna be looking at some big ass plants especially with coco grow rates. And to your question about cloning flowering plants, its always an option but I would shy away because it really does take them longer to grow roots and on top of that you get some funky ass re-veg leaves for the first bit of new growth. And maybe I read wrong, but are you worried about taking flowering clones because you need to sex the plants first? If thats the case my advice to you is take clones from every plant BEFORE the flip and sex their parents, cull the clones accordingly. Hope that helps- good luck

Thanks man. What if I dont got an ez cloner, how long would it take with just cloning gel or powder?

At what week would u flip a tent full of reg seeds?
As my only concern with taking clones before the flip is, that there might be no branch good enough to be a cutting.

OH yea, when you say i'll have big as plants after 2 months of veg, will i be able to contain an X amount of female clones in a tent (1m x 1m area, 2m height)?

I've only used the ez cloner so I'll forward that question to the next guys. As for when to flip, the average plant will grow 2-3 size its veg size during flower, so just look at the space you have to fill and plan accordingly. If your flower room is 2m high, then I'd say your looking at flipping them at around .5 to.75m tall depending on if you have a hood or bare bulb vert.

If you have 2 months of veg you could fill up a 1x1 space with 1 or 2 plants, I'm telling you there gonna be big. Now down the road when you have some mothers all ready set up you can just maintain them and pull clones 3-4 weeks before you harvest your crop, then by the time they have rooted and grown a little you will have them at SOG size and be able to go forward with your original plan.

I will prolly pop about 30 reg seeds, out of those i may get 15 fems. I was hoping to keep a clone of each female. After I harvest the first run, i will choose the clones of the 8 best performers, move them in the flowering tent then scrog them out.
I can't do that when i only have 2 clones.

Would it be possible to take clones from the clones as soon as they get big enough? That way i can avoid them filling the veg tent.. but will it be easy to clone a clone only a few weeks after they rooted?