Wanted to pop in and show respect plus welcome yas to Vert-ville.....and hey.....Logic`s a dick with ears don`t sweat it....

When Heath Robinson found Doubled`s over there hawkin his bullshit RDWC behemoth as HIS CREATION when Heath and I BOTH schooled his ass at an old and dead site couple yrs before , we BOTH joined to see wtf was up , since he combined krusty buckets and Heath`s designs period , and....

Within DAYS we were both banned for OUR knowledge and experience tellin EVERYONE that it was an accident waitin to happen with all the bells and whistles TOTALLY UNNECESSARY to grow dope , and guaranteed problems would ensue from all the nooks and crannies that collected pathogens and eventually kill plants , but folks listened and copied...and what happened ?.....

Crops started droppin like flies...anyways.....Nowadays technology and Cap`s bennies makes it pretty bulletproof ta grow in "recirculating death without cause" setups , and your waterfall technique that Heath innovated yrs ago trumps bullshit airpumps and stones by leaps and bounds , so good luck and....

Peace...DHF.........

[Ttystikk]

Originally Posted by DHF

Wanted to pop in and show respect plus welcome yas to Vert-ville.....and hey.....Logic`s a dick with ears don`t sweat it....

When Heath Robinson found Doubled`s over there hawkin his bullshit RDWC behemoth as HIS CREATION when Heath and I BOTH schooled his ass at an old and dead site couple yrs before , we BOTH joined to see wtf was up , since he combined krusty buckets and Heath`s designs period , and....

Within DAYS we were both banned for OUR knowledge and experience tellin EVERYONE that it was an accident waitin to happen with all the bells and whistles TOTALLY UNNECESSARY to grow dope , and guaranteed problems would ensue from all the nooks and crannies that collected pathogens and eventually kill plants , but folks listened and copied...and what happened ?.....

Crops started droppin like flies...anyways.....Nowadays technology and Cap`s bennies makes it pretty bulletproof ta grow in "recirculating death without cause" setups , and your waterfall technique that Heath innovated yrs ago trumps bullshit airpumps and stones by leaps and bounds , so good luck and....

Peace...DHF.........

DHF! Nice to see you! I was wondering when you were going to stop by and comment. I've only been here long enough to scratch the surface of the threads, even just here in VertVille, but I've run across enough of your comments to see that you've been there and done that long enough to have a real knowledge base.

The longer my posts are on that site, the more of a positive reference it is for me in the community. I'm not shy about saying that I treated everyone with dignity and respect. I'm not going to change that now. Moving on...

I wondered about all the thread wreckage I saw around doubleD's threads, and no pics, etc. Cap owes him a favor it sounds like to me, without all those dead RDWC, Cap might never have gotten his OGBiowar business off the ground! Gotta HAVE the need to fill it, right? That also explains the complexity of Cap's setup... Which, it must be said, works very well indeed in his capable hands.

My approach is to keep shit as simple as possible while still achieving the design goal. Airless aeration is one successful application, eliminating the need for that entire subsystem completely.

This same approach led me to the vertical cylinder/silo idea, as it seemed to me that the biggest yield killer in indoor growing is poor management of plant to bulb distance. I place the plant against the OUTSIDE of the trellis and push the growing tips through the mesh, which is extremely effective at actively managing its distance from source. I have some bad pics of this, I'll keep trying.

IF there is innovation here- and I'm not saying there is- it's in the combination of approaches I've taken. Far be it from me to stand on the shoulders of those who've come before- and then claim I got here by myself!

[Ttystikk]

Dumping some pics of the first room of my first run with full size plants and three silos. For a description of the silos, refer back to post #7 in this thread.

This room got flipped about 8-10 days before these were taken. Believe it or not, stretch has been a completely manageable issue, due to the way the plants are espaliered against the back of their trellis. To tame an unruly branch, I merely pull it back through the mesh, lay it out flat on the trellis, and reinsert the growing tips. Since the trellis is literally in front of my nose, doing this task takes seconds and a whole plant in minutes- even one that fills a 25 ft² trellis completely!

Hidden in the jungle are one each of Dairy Queen, Blue Dream, Magic Merlin, Double Purple Crack and two Hillbilly Hobby. Stretch, babies... Stretch!

[Ttystikk]

[Ttystikk]

So, I thought my system would stir up a bit more interest here than this.

Would it help if I said that my lil ol' 7.5' x 13' x 6.8" room should yield anywhere between twelve and TWENTY # from just 3kW?

Maybe I'm way off- what kind of numbers do others get in setups like this? I know for sure my rig can't be THAT unique!

[Ttystikk]

VEG TENT, as promised. Sorry these aren't the most well composed shots, it's tight in there!

[Ttystikk]

There are three stages in the veg tent, each can be located by its lighting; 130W LED is over the smallest stage, 400W HPS over the next group, and a 1kW MH over the final prebloom veg stage.

The idea is to give the girls time and space to reach for the sky and spread out wide- the better to fill out a trellis with you, my dear! My goal is 6' tall plants to espalier into place and flip. The idea is to make weight, right?

[Ttystikk]

Originally Posted by DHF

Well TTYS....for the record , I loathe plant yo-yo`s so prevalently used and advocated at the farm for big plants , cuz I was taught chickenwire on the ceilings and just regular plant twine to tie off and open up , as well as support limbs during stretch through end of cycle FTW with 4 plants being constantly bombarded by 3 lights at all times with 50 watts per sq ft , as the baseline for optimal growth and swellage through the life of said 4 plants....and....

I totally understand your concept of "espalier`ing" of your 2 plants in each inverted silo by training and tying off each limb sideways up down and all around said silo`s to create as thick of a sideways canopy with no holes anywhere in said canopy for optimal return off 2 plants per 1000 watter....but.....

The only wayta know for a fact if yas are capable of , and or are doing just as well with 20 watts per sq ft compared to 50 would be to increase wattage with more silo`s AND more thouie`s till the WHOLE room adds up to 50 watts per sq ft , but to do that.....

True that- and I'm gratified that you're thinking along the same lines as I am. I'm planning to run tests of 1kW stationary (current run doesn't count because the plants stated out too small), 1kW on a mover, 2x600W, and IDK if I can pull off 2kW of HPS in there and keep things from roasting!

Other sizes of silo are on the drawing board, as well- interestingly, all still use the same size panel, at 4'x6.25', only now I'm placing them upright, portrait style. This makes for silos just under 8' in total height including the rdwc tubs they're over. If I use three panels in a silo, it ends up being 12'/pi=3'10" in diameter, and 75 ft² of trellis area. Add a fourth panel, 16'/pi=5'1" dia, totals 100 ft² inside! These options are too tall for the stated ceiling height in the other poster's room, so I didn't mention them.

Your silo`s would haveta be smaller to accommodate a 10x10 area , and OR supply supplemental bare bulbs outside the silo`s to make up for the difference , but if you`re pullin 10 -12 lbs off 4 silo`s in the same sq ftg with 8 plants and only 4 lights/silo`s , then who am I ta say you`re doin ANYTHING wrong , so again.....

The OP said his room was about 11.5' square, plenty of room for four. Having played with the placement of these, it turns out that it's okay for one side to be as close as 4-6" from a wall. This allows for more room for the others, without having to stick any in the corner where they're impossible to work on.

While supplemental light from the outside might be an interesting direction to explore in the future, I'm growing one sided plants; they face the bulb INSIDE their trellis, all else is distraction. I made this choice to drive this system's application of the inverse square law to its ultimate logical conclusion.

There`s many waysta skin a mule , but till now and for the longest of times and many yrs since , I`ve never seen a better producer for low plant numbers in a small area than the 4 plant 5 light setup I ran for almost a decade "Krusty bucket style"....now....

HL45 had a thread before security issues called "Love Machines" with illustrations of how I helped him set up the 10x10`s to run side by side perpetually a month or so apart in age , and....

His Sour Diesel plant was and most likely is still pumpin out 10+ and then some with just 4 plants , and prolly getting closer to 3 lb plants as we speak since having dialed said strain in said setup WITHOUT cleanin out the insides or much of ANY tending at all since he said all the larfy trim gets extracted FTW in Med-ville.....so...

I was all set to pull the trigger on exactly this same setup- no surprise since our rooms are the same size, lol- but I kept having problems; first, I had to route extra power for the fifth bulb, then I had to design in extra cooling... by the time I'd gotten a layout, I was sick and damned tired of all those lights at such oddball distances shining on the outside of a spherical shape and still trying to get optimal light saturation? It just wasn't working out in my head, and that's when I originally came up with this approach.

Proud ta have fresh perspectives and different ways to accomplish the same goal with lesser wattage even if it`s double the amount of plants for close to same results , if similar low veg times are employed as well for apples to apples instead of oranges...regardless....

20 watts per sq ft flies in the face of ALL I know holy and true , but again.....stranger things have happened and I grew 2-1/2 lb plants consistently with only 34 watts per sq ft for almost a decade , but I`d used the same strain for over 12 yrs outside , and knew her needs 9 ways from sunday and exploited that bitch for all she was worth.....bottom line....

When I upped my wattage per sq ft to 50 per with my ebb and flow buckets with increased plant numbers , the SAME strain that I THOUGHT was as dialed as the bitch could get , turned out as different as NIGHT and DAY , with waaaay more trichome production , calyx to leaf ratio , bud density , and simply overall hardly looked like the same plant I`d run exclusively for almost 20 yrs inside AND outdoors WITH 2-1/2 OZ plants instead of 2-1/2 LB`ers , so.....

You're going to learn something about me fairly quickly, in that I got no ego about this at all; I'm all about the merits of the solution, PERIOD. Frankly, the numbers aren't adding up for me, either, so we are going to wring this approach out until it bleeds... I will be trying more ways and light movers- and both- in the not so distant future, as I continue my quest to cram more weight into ever smaller footprints.

I like your style, and your open mind. My plan is to build it- and let the plants tell us how they like it!

Things that make yas go hmmmm , and thoughts to ponder......that said....

Thanks again for options and showing in detail how you pull your numbers......

Peace....DHF.....

I'm quoting your post in my thread, so as not to distract from his, hope that's cool?

One more thing you'll learn about me; no lies, no exaggerations. I have yet to pull my first vertical crop, so much of what I'm tossing out is educated speculation, based on what I'm seeing as these girls finish up.

Stick around, the DATA is about to drop! Surface area covered, yield per square foot, total per plant yield, total room yield...

'One cannot improve a process until he can measure and quantify it accurately.' -W. Edwards Deming, the American father of the post WWII Japanese industrial miracle. No one gave a shit about total quality control in 1946- at least, no one on THIS side of the Pacific.

American industry is still so ashamed of how they treated him that no less a well known name than Cadillac elevated a base plaigarist of Deming's ideas, some asshole named 'Malcolm Baldridge' to give out 'quality awards' to themselves.

IF WE TOLERATE THE HABIT OF THIS NATION TO EAT ITS YOUNG, BEST AND BRIGHTEST, WE WILL HAVE NO FUTURE, FOR WE'LL HAVE EATEN OUR BREEDING STOCK. Don't believe me? Go look up J. Robert Oppenheimer, and see how the man who built the atomic bomb for US was treated BY US AFTER THE WAR.

[Ttystikk]

My new flush regimen us simplicity itself; simply intentional dilute with water to reach half nutrient strength or less.

[Ttystikk]

Just cruising along, cropping every couple weeks, ho hum.... Looking to drop the DQ sometime next week, those ladies are looking really pretty. I'll try to get some better shots of them up shortly, bear with me.