Bad Habit's 10x13 CGE Room Build

Sup IC. I'm a newer member here, but so far I've gotten some very helpful responses from members, which I really appreciate.

I'm in the process of designing my 10x13 sealed room.

First, the room specs:

8 foot ceilings.

9.9 feet long.

13 feet wide. - This is a bit confusing though. There is a closet built into the room, which juts out. The closet is 5 feet wide, 27.5" deep, and just under 8 feet tall. To the left of the closet area is 50.75" wide (about 4.25 feet). Normally, this is where the door would swing into, but the door actually swings out from the room.

Here is a visual representation, where 1 square = 2 feet:



Budget:

Hoping to get the electrical, AC unit, equipment, and room finished for 10 grand or less. So far I've had one electrician quote me at about $2200, and having another come out tomorrow to look who gave me an initial quote of $1900. Hoping I can get an AC unit installed for 3 grand. That would leave me with about 5 grand for the rest of the equipment, and I can get a very big discount at one of my local hydroshops.

Ideally, I would like to both veg and flower in this room, perpetual harvest.

In the area to the left of the closet (if you were facing the closet, right by the door), I plan on having my 100amp sub panel, light controllers, co2 regulator and controller mounted on the wall, and the c02 tank, rolling trash can res, and deheuy sitting on the floor.

In the closet area, I was hoping to have the small perpetual veg split into 3 sections: mother/clone, then on top of that the phase 1-2 veg plants, then to the left of that the phase 3 veg plants.

In the main 10' x 10.75' area I plan on having 9 600W HPS going for flowering.

Equipment list so far:

9 600 watt Turbo Galaxy ballasts
9 600 watt super HPS Eye Hortilux bulbs
not sure on the reflectors yet
Sun Blaze T5 - 24 for mothers and clones
Sun Blaze T5 - 44 for phase 1 and 2 veg plants
Sun Blaze T5 - 48 for phase 3 veg plants

Titan Controls Atlas 7 Co2 Controller
Titan Controls Co2 Regulator
2 20lb Co2 Tanks
(not sure on the line or distribution for Co2 yet, need input)

Ideal-Air Dehumidifier 60 Pint

For the AC unit, I'm still not sure what model yet. I'm pretty sold on a 3 ton unit though for my needs. Here is a discussion in a thread I made here: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=277550

Ecoplus 16" Wall Mount Fan x 4 for each wall in the flower room
Air King Wall Mount Fan 12 in for phase 3 veg plants
Air King Clip On Fan 6 in x 2 for clones/phase 1 veg plants

Can-Filter 75 w/ 12" max fan

Just picked up a Cap 8 and a Cap 4 light controller yesterday for free.

Questions:

1) Is it realistic to think I can both veg and flower given my room specs? I was hoping to space it out so that I would basically harvest 1 plant per week, and move 1 phase 3 veg plant into it's place. I'll probably end up having to kill plenty of clones and smaller vegging plants that don't make the cut in the process.

For the closet space, there is currently no door separating it from the room, it is just open. I was thinking I could either find a grow tent that would fit those specs, or rig some kind of removal wall or door to shut it off from the flowering area. I was thinking I could have 1 or 2 input ducts at the bottom of the veg area that would bring in the AC cooled air into it to cool it, and one exhaust ducting at the top to blow out the hot air. Would this present a problem if I plan on keeping the flowering room at around 1200ppm and that would be venting into the veg area? Also problems with the humidity requirements between the 2 areas? Definitely interested in input on that....

2) Framing/Insulating the Room. I would love to hear suggestions on what to do here. I have been reading through various grow journals and setups and gotten some good ideas, but very interested in more input. I was originally planning on just painting the whole room white with the anti-fungal and mold additives, and then covering the walls with panda film, but upon further research it seems like insulating the room further would benefit the atmospheric control and stress on the AC unit.

3) Sealing off the doors/windows. Only sealing off of doors I've done is with basic weather stripping and duct tape, but I know there are better options out there. Also curious what people think the best way to seal off a window is.

4) Oscillating fans: my buddy seemed to think 1 mounted on each wall in the flowering section should be sufficient. Agree/disagree?

5) Reflectors. What does everyone think the best reflectors for the HPS would be for this type of set up? I was thinking either an Argotech Magnum or Sun System Irradiator, but I'm a complete noob on the subject.

Previous Grow Experience:

I've done about 10 cab and closet grows so far. I have a few friends who have been growing medically for 4+ years, and have picked up some knowledge and experience from them as well. I know this is a pretty freaking big jump from a closet to this, but I'm confident between the ICmag community and my friend I can get it to work

bump for questions

You've got most of it figured out it seems…

1) Yes and no. All those T-5's packed into a closest are going to get HOT. A 3-ton AC is plenty for 5400W and your veg, but you'll need to duct light tight if you're using it for both spaces.

2) Frame and insulate, no question. One of my albums in my pics is building a sloped floor, and walls are almost exactly the same (minus the sloped part). Studs 16" or 24" on center, R-19 insulation, and drywall (or foam board if you must), over that. Your plants, AC, and environment will thank you… You're spending the money on some good equipment, do the room right the first time and avoid headaches later. It's really a minuscule cost when you look at everything. The last 8 light room I put together, we built and insulated for $1200.

3) Completely sealed? Weather strip around the entire window, blackout the inside, insulation, plywood over it.

4) The more the better. Again, they are cheap.

5) If you've already found the Agrotech's you've already found the highest PAR, non air cooled reflector there is. Since you aren't going vertical though, I'd suggest getting the DE ones and running the DE Phillips bulbs if you really want to go all out.

IC OVO said:

You've got most of it figured out it seems…

1) Yes and no. All those T-5's packed into a closest are going to get HOT. A 3-ton AC is plenty for 5400W and your veg, but you'll need to duct light tight if you're using it for both spaces.

2) Frame and insulate, no question. One of my albums in my pics is building a sloped floor, and walls are almost exactly the same (minus the sloped part). Studs 16" or 24" on center, R-19 insulation, and drywall (or foam board if you must), over that. Your plants, AC, and environment will thank you… You're spending the money on some good equipment, do the room right the first time and avoid headaches later. It's really a minuscule cost when you look at everything. The last 8 light room I put together, we built and insulated for $1200.

3) Completely sealed? Weather strip around the entire window, blackout the inside, insulation, plywood over it.

4) The more the better. Again, they are cheap.

5) If you've already found the Agrotech's you've already found the highest PAR, non air cooled reflector there is. Since you aren't going vertical though, I'd suggest getting the DE ones and running the DE Phillips bulbs if you really want to go all out.

Click to expand...

Thanks for dropping by dude!

I was actually looking over the floros and the measurements today, and realized the models I listed won't fit in that closet space how I imagined them. I was going off visual memory of my friend's, but after reading those specific one's are 4 feet long, my original plan of a sideways "T" design went out the window. I guess I could do just 3 levels in a shelf system. Dunno if that will give me enough vertical space to veg em out, but I am planning on topping/training and scrogging them.

1) I was hoping one elbowed passive air intake at the bottom and one fan-powered exhaust at the top would be enough to vent the veg unit with the main rooms AC. Still need ideas how to effectively seal the closet space off without losing any space in the flower area though.

2) Just looked through your album/journal, and realized who you are. Already been through them all awhile back Awesome stuff dude! You have some great carpentry skills. Wayyy better than mine.

RE framing and insulating though - I really don't wanna lose any space in the room considering how small it already is and how many lights I'm trying to fit into it. Ideally I'd only like to lose an inch or 2 off each wall if possible. Any idea of something that would fit that criteria?

3) Should I just use R-19 to insulate it?

5) these argos aren't for vert bulbs (???) http://www.ehydroponics.com/agrotech-magnum-reflector.html?&cid=12
Also, DE = double ended I assume? I remember looking for double ended 600 watt Gavitas but couldn't find any DEs that weren't the 1000s. Also after doing more research I realized my ceilings weren't tall enough for the gavitas (phillips bulbs are used in Gavita fixtures right?).

Thanks for the responses man!

I would suggest burning propane or natural gas for your co2 production. Your going to be getting those tanks filled every week.

I run a watercooled Co2 system I put together with a tankless hot water heater for about 250.00

budleydoright said:

I would suggest burning propane or natural gas for your co2 production. Your going to be getting those tanks filled every week.

I run a watercooled Co2 system I put together with a tankless hot water heater for about 250.00

Click to expand...

Yeah I really didn't wanna go with a burner because I don't think a 3 ton AC would be able to cool all my stuff plus a burner in the summer time realistically (plus the idea of flames kinda scares me lol). I know I would have to get the tanks filled frequently, it just seemed like an reality hassle or not.

I'd be interested in checking out your setup. Any pics or threads about it?

4-5 gavita 1Ks instead of 9 600's.
You have 10ft ceilings!
I used to love 600's and hate 1ks until I got my gavita, but they also make gavita 600's
Skip the air colled reflectors
T8's and a few T5's
I havent researched ideal air deheuy's but I would if I were thinking about buying one.

Coconutz said:

4-5 gavita 1Ks instead of 9 600's.
You have 10ft ceilings!
I used to love 600's and hate 1ks until I got my gavita, but they also make gavita 600's
Skip the air colled reflectors
T8's and a few T5's
I havent researched ideal air deheuy's but I would if I were thinking about buying one.

Click to expand...

Thanks for dropping in Coconutz.

I would consider the gavitas, if I had 10ft ceilings. However, this is not the case: on the 4th line I wrote I have 8 foot ceilings

gavitas need too much clearance for my room dimensions unfortunately....

Bad Habits said:

Thanks for dropping in Coconutz.

I would consider the gavitas, if I had 10ft ceilings. However, this is not the case: on the 4th line I wrote I have 8 foot ceilings

gavitas need too much clearance for my room dimensions unfortunately....

Click to expand...

Sorry... Growing OG over here. Always super high!
I somehow read 9.9 ceilings and somehow that made sense to me...lol
Carry on...
gavita 600's are good at 18-24" leaving about 5.5ft for plants and tables because the units with connected ballasts take up another 6" or so. They do offer remote ballast options though.
Im actually about to pick up a remote ballast and DE adjusta wing combo.

Bad Habits said:

Yeah I really didn't wanna go with a burner because I don't think a 3 ton AC would be able to cool all my stuff plus a burner in the summer time realistically (plus the idea of flames kinda scares me lol). I know I would have to get the tanks filled frequently, it just seemed like an reality hassle or not.

I'd be interested in checking out your setup. Any pics or threads about it?

Click to expand...

i was leery because of the heat too
with a a big room its the way to go,
i also went with water cooled co2 gen.... thanks budley!
under $200. and the thing is,
a reg gas gen sized to my room would have to run 6-7minutes, this is where I had a prob with heat.

when i saw the btu's the tankless water heater put out
the calculations put it under 2 minutes... much better
in reality it does the job in about 45seconds
its in my room thread

Bad Habits said:

3) Should I just use R-19 to insulate it?

Click to expand...

there better things to use that will get you R-40 in a 3/1/2" wall space.
i used a combination of 2" eps foam panels- R-7.5
and inm mid stream found polyisocyaurnate foam panels at the roofing supply house, they come in thickness up to 4"
the 2 inch panels i used were rated R-12 or R-13.

Prodex was the icing on the cake,
this stuff is only 13/64ths of an inch thick and is R-16.
use it with air space and you'll get top results
its also a radiant barrier and also gives you a 19dba drop in contact noise reduction.
i uses a combo of all three. I would have skipped the eps foam because the iso was superior but i already install some of the eps.
the neat thing with the iso is R value increases as it gets thicker!

my 1st elec bill came in and I'm amazed...
6000w of light in veg 18hrs a day
6 mag ballasts in the room w/running temps 145-164F
gas Co2 gen
a bunch of fans pumps etc etc
it was under $90 for my mini split
total bill, under $500
i was expecting up to $700-$750

anyways something to mull over
and my

Aquaking 6l tankless lpg water heater on ebay.

There are So many reasons this is better than the bottle.

Coconutz said:

Sorry... Growing OG over here. Always super high!
I somehow read 9.9 ceilings and somehow that made sense to me...lol
Carry on...
gavita 600's are good at 18-24" leaving about 5.5ft for plants and tables because the units with connected ballasts take up another 6" or so. They do offer remote ballast options though.
Im actually about to pick up a remote ballast and DE adjusta wing combo.

Click to expand...

Haha no worries bro! I definitely know how it goes... Just based on my research and talking with some other folks it seems like gavitas just aren't optimal for my situation though.

the gnome said:

i was leery because of the heat too
with a a big room its the way to go,
i also went with water cooled co2 gen.... thanks budley!
under $200. and the thing is,
a reg gas gen sized to my room would have to run 6-7minutes, this is where I had a prob with heat.

when i saw the btu's the tankless water heater put out
the calculations put it under 2 minutes... much better
in reality it does the job in about 45seconds
its in my room thread

Click to expand...

Never even heard of using a tankless water heater for Co2, but it definitely makes sense. gonna have to check it out in your thread soon. It's been a longgg day and I'm about to take care of my babies before crashing myself

the gnome said:

there better things to use that will get you R-40 in a 3/1/2" wall space.
i used a combination of 2" eps foam panels- R-7.5
and inm mid stream found polyisocyaurnate foam panels at the roofing supply house, they come in thickness up to 4"
the 2 inch panels i used were rated R-12 or R-13.

Prodex was the icing on the cake,
this stuff is only 13/64ths of an inch thick and is R-16.
use it with air space and you'll get top results
its also a radiant barrier and also gives you a 19dba drop in contact noise reduction.
i uses a combo of all three. I would have skipped the eps foam because the iso was superior but i already install some of the eps.
the neat thing with the iso is R value increases as it gets thicker!

my 1st elec bill came in and I'm amazed...
6000w of light in veg 18hrs a day
6 mag ballasts in the room w/running temps 145-164F
gas Co2 gen
a bunch of fans pumps etc etc
it was under $90 for my mini split
total bill, under $500
i was expecting up to $700-$750

anyways something to mull over
and my

Click to expand...

That seems pretty damn good for the electric bill!

All this insulation stuff is completely new to me... basically I'm not willing to tear open the existing walls and replace what's already in there (don't have the money), so I was hoping to find like 1 layer of something that would significantly help with both heat and sound insulation. Ideally something that doesn't take up more than an inch from the wall.

would the prodex be a good option for this criteria??

Gotta checkout your thread again when I have more time for sure.

budleydoright said:

Aquaking 6l tankless lpg water heater on ebay.

There are So many reasons this is better than the bottle.

Click to expand...

Okay so how exactly does this work? Does it plug right in to the co2 regulator/controller or what???

Thanks for the suggestion

if you already have an existing wall and don't want to open it up to retro fit
prodex is definitely the way to go.
R-16 in 13/64ths per inch,
nothing Ive seen on the market can touch it inch for inch.
in 1" you could do 3 layers, put a 3/8-1/2"an air space between the last layer and you'll
have wall/ceiling close to R-50
2 layers...R-32
its also a radiant barrier and has noise reducing properties.

its worth checking out
http://www.insulation4less.com/Insulation4lessProduct-1-Prodex-Total-48-Inch.aspx

the gnome said:

if you already have an existing wall and don't want to open it up to retro fit
prodex is definitely the way to go.
R-16 in 13/64ths per inch,
nothing Ive seen on the market can touch it inch for inch.
in 1" you could do 3 layers, put a 3/8-1/2"an air space between the last layer and you'll
have wall/ceiling close to R-50
2 layers...R-32
its also a radiant barrier and has noise reducing properties.

its worth checking out
http://www.insulation4less.com/Insulation4lessProduct-1-Prodex-Total-48-Inch.aspx

Click to expand...

Dude, that sounds awesome! I think this is the way to go for me.

On home depot I searched "prodex" which came up with this:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Reach-Ba...-Polyethylene-Insulation-Roll-3054/203536788#

Is this the same thing as the link you posted? I'm a tad confused because they're both Reflective Polyethylene, however your link says it's "closed cell" and on the home depot link it says there is no R-value??? It'd be nice if I could get it from Home Depot so I don't have to ship it, but obviously if this is a different product that's a no-go....

Also how exactly did you install it if you don't mind me asking? Heavy duty staple gun then reflective ducting tape?

On the Home Depot link it says "R-Value: 0"

Bad Habits said:

On home depot I searched "prodex" which came up with this:
Is this the same thing as the link you posted?
Also how exactly did you install it if you don't mind me asking? Heavy duty staple gun then reflective ducting tape?

Click to expand...

you can only order prodex online,
no outlets for it far as I kno

as far as install, the site has info ,
if you plan on using it spend some reading, lots of good info/ideas/faqs
you can nail, staple or use any type of fastener as it seals around the hole.
just don't smash it flat.
you can also use tape, double sided tape or adhesives.
i used the Dub-sided tape in my ceiling in places.
you can get the prodex fast action that has an adhesive strip to bond to another piece.

a really important install step is using an airspace, this will can add to your R-value.
i think the have a customer service tech line to help.

the gnome said:

you can only order prodex online,
no outlets for it far as I kno

as far as install, the site has info ,
if you plan on using it spend some reading, lots of good info/ideas/faqs
you can nail, staple or use any type of fastener as it seals around the hole.
just don't smash it flat.
you can also use tape, double sided tape or adhesives.
i used the Dub-sided tape in my ceiling in places.
you can get the prodex fast action that has an adhesive strip to bond to another piece.

a really important install step is using an airspace, this will can add to your R-value.
i think the have a customer service tech line to help.

Click to expand...

sounds good man, looks like I got some more reading to do.

What exactly do you mean "just don't smash it flat" ?

Also not sure if I'll have room on the interior of the room you have any kind of air space between seperate layers because 1) the room is already so small as it is and 2 framing the room to do so is just more stuff I really don't have to budget for right now


Quick little update on my build: had the electric panel for the house swapped out in the last few days, got a brand new one put in with a 100amp breaker, got it inspected and improved today. This weekend gonna try and get the 100amp subpanel done in the grow room. Then trying to paint sometime next week. I was just gonna paint the walls white with the anti-mold additive, anything else I should take into consideration when painting it? (keep in mind the walls will be covered with prodex and/or panda film regardless)

What exactly do you mean "just don't smash it flat" ?

if you use a fasteners, like a nail you don't want to hammer the nail down so much it *compresses* the prodex.

prodex is pretty solid stuff compared to std. fliberglass batt insulation.
use can use 2 sided tape to stick it in place or contact cement,
i did this in my ceiling on top of the ceiling joists to keep it down.
i have concrete block walls on 1 side of my room so i used contact cement the just enough to hang it on the wall
before covering it with 1/2" plywood.

seams need to be taped,
i got the prodex fast action with the adhesive self stick seam
still i had to use the foil duct tape on specialty cut seams(had a roll handy)
you can overlap the prodex an inch on seams and use reg duct tape.
again, go to the prodex site and read, or call em,
they may have a tech support line?
prodex is the best stuff Ive seen for the money.
i plan on doing my attic with it

as
far as painting the walls, i used oil based kilz on my wood insulated panel walls, it actually a pigmented shellac so it's basically water proof.
but it will offgass for a month.

if your putting prodex over the wall your painting reg paint with the M57 mold inhibitor will do fine,

prodex is also a vapor barrier
so if you install it good-n-tite and seal it you should not have any moisture getting past the prodex

as far as an airspace you can do with out it, its just an easy way of reinforcing your R-value up without adding more insulation.

sounds like ya gots the ball a rolling now BH

the gnome said:

What exactly do you mean "just don't smash it flat" ?

if you use a fasteners, like a nail you don't want to hammer the nail down so much it *compresses* the prodex.

prodex is pretty solid stuff compared to std. fliberglass batt insulation.
use can use 2 sided tape to stick it in place or contact cement,
i did this in my ceiling on top of the ceiling joists to keep it down.
i have concrete block walls on 1 side of my room so i used contact cement the just enough to hang it on the wall
before covering it with 1/2" plywood.

seams need to be taped,
i got the prodex fast action with the adhesive self stick seam
still i had to use the foil duct tape on specialty cut seams(had a roll handy)
you can overlap the prodex an inch on seams and use reg duct tape.
again, go to the prodex site and read, or call em,
they may have a tech support line?
prodex is the best stuff Ive seen for the money.
i plan on doing my attic with it

as
far as painting the walls, i used oil based kilz on my wood insulated panel walls, it actually a pigmented shellac so it's basically water proof.
but it will offgass for a month.

if your putting prodex over the wall your painting reg paint with the M57 mold inhibitor will do fine,

prodex is also a vapor barrier
so if you install it good-n-tite and seal it you should not have any moisture getting past the prodex

as far as an airspace you can do with out it, its just an easy way of reinforcing your R-value up without adding more insulation.

sounds like ya gots the ball a rolling now BH

Click to expand...

ahhh that makes sense. I was thinking of using a staple gun just to get it in place, then use reflective tapes all around the seams.

I know you keep saying to read through the site, but I'm assuming it doesn't have stuff specific to a grow room, so if you don't mind can I ask you a few more questions? lol

1) I was planning on framing just the floor and putting pond liner down to protect against water on the wood floors, but I assume it would be a good idea to put a layer of prodex down under that?

2) I'm kinda wondering what the order of operations should be in terms of installing the prodex and then the other stuff. For example, is it it fine to drill through the prodex for like hanging my lights and stuff? Like I'm finishing the sub-panel, then painting, then should I put the prodex up everywhere THEN hang all the lights, ballasts, fans etc? If drilling through the prodex, should I put like reflective tape down where I'm drilling to help seal it on itself when it's punctured? sorry if that's confusing...

3) every wall already has an outlet on it, so I was planning on using those for my accessories like fans and not installing any new ones external to the pre-existing walls. So should I install the prodex, then cut squares through the prodex around the outlets and just tape those squares with reflective tape?

Sorry to keep bombarding you with questions! You've been a great help so far man.


Subpanel is getting installed as we speak, and will probably be done by tonight or tomorrow night. Will snap a few pics after.