[Payaso]

So I am proposing we have a contest to show growers for real the exact differences in plant growth and yield using either of these techniques: defoliating fan leaves vs. leaving all healthy fan leaves on the plant through harvest.

Entrants must document their plant growth weekly with side-by-side photographs of two identical plants grown from clone in the same conditions for each plant...can be indoors our outdoors.

One plant is defoliated, the other is not. Side by side comparison shots through the growth and flowering cycle are required to compete.

Each plant must be harvested at approximately the same time, and processed exactly as the other plant... but each one must be kept separate, and entire, until final weighing and photos are taken.

This contest will be judged by voting of the site members at the end of the contest...the point being who can run the best experiment with documentation.

Those are my suggested rules, and I'd like to hear your opinions before we get this rolling...

Just think of the education you'll be providing to generations of growers and the honor of being the one to prove, or disprove this theory by scientific methods.

Peace,
~Payaso

[papaduc]

Fantastic post Payaso. And long overdue. Kind of action I like to see. Separates the talkers from the doers and provides ICmag community with real meat to get their teeth into, and a real knowledge base - backed up with pictographic evidence - to source from.


However, can I suggest that entrants must use at least 2 clones on each side as a minimum? I'd say 4 if possible.

But I think 2 is the bare minimum

Who ever participates will need two exact same setup+conditions or as damn near as possible?

[papaduc]

They don't need two setups to begin with. Better if done under/around the same light in fact.

[papaduc]

Also, Payaso, can I ask if you can set out the parameters for the tests to encompass all of the issues/variables which came out of the first thread? In other words, get all the rules sorted before you actually begin the thread, to clarify exactly what it is we're trying to find out.

First suggestion would be: Documentation of the difference in growth rates/patterns, of plants left intact - with every leaf remaining - and those defoliated as suggested by proponents of the extreme defoliation technique. During both veg AND flowering phase

In other words, let's see the difference in growth when a plant is stripped bare during the vegging phase, and when it has all it's leaves to process light.

I think this is a major factor in the overall scheme of things because as we all know, the overall time frame when we're growing, factors into the whole yield per watt per month calculations.

[papaduc]

I would also suggest that there is a set time at which defoliation should take place.

In other words, there's no point stripping a plant bare at 4 weeks of veg.. then deducing that a plant which is defoliated can grow just as rapidly as one which isn't, or vice versa.

I think the people who follow the `high yield technique` thread will know that the plants are stripped early on in the growth phase. This is something I've always questioned - that a plant benefits from this and that no matter what results are garnered in flower phase they cannot justify an intrinsic link to defoliation in the veg period.

It was clear based on the advice from keeftreez (I think) that a plant which has not been prepared by defoliation during the veg phase, should not be defoliated during flower. I disagree with this and think it's a vital part of the side by side testing.

In other words, maybe some entrants into the competition could leave a plant fully intact, then defoliate heavily in flower, etc.

How this is incorporated into the competition can be discussed by other members. Maybe you can decide after everyone's opinion is shared.

[papaduc]

Oh, and last but not least, I think it's important to get clear what exactly defoliation "is"...

I mean, one person taking a fan leaf once a week, vs another stripping the plant bare all at once, are two completely different techniques and can't both be simply described as `defoliation`.

Maybe entrants could set out which technique they're going to employ. Maybe a set minimum quota of people who will do each thing; ie strip bare, defoliate gradually, not defoliate at all... etc.

[Arminius]

I'm in!
In two-three weeks, I will be resetting a room with 16 OG Headcheese.
I will not touch the 8 along the wall, and only prune the rest.
This room is 8' x 11', with 4 stacks of double 600s, with 4 plants per.
Dec. 15th is the latest the current run will go, and it may be a week earlier.

[Arminius]

Originally Posted by papaduc

Oh, and last but not least, I think it's important to get clear what exactly defoliation "is"...

I mean, one person taking a fan leaf once a week, vs another stripping the plant bare all at once, are two completely different techniques and can't both be simply described as `defoliation`.

Maybe entrants could set out which technique they're going to employ. Maybe a set minimum quota of people who will do each thing; ie strip bare, defoliate gradually, not defoliate at all... etc.

That is a given. Dramatically stripping a plant, exceeding 30% of its plant matter, will obviously sent it into shock. I never got the impression that people who "aggressively prune", would ever suggest that, doing it once was enough for me.
To me "defoliation" is considered to be removing just the sucker branches, and fans that block flower sites.

[Payaso]

Ok - I am glad there is some interest in this experiment/contest.

First, this is the suggestion thread where we talk about the rules... off-topic posts with opinions and previous experiments may get removed...

I will try to address all the points above here and now

To make the experiment easy enough for any decent grower to accomplish should be a given. Therefore there will be just two identical plants grown together either under the same light, or lights, or outdoors SIDE-BY-SIDE means that, not two separate setups.

The parameters of the experiment will be decided as we discuss them here...that way it's truly a contest/experiment that we will agree is conclusive.

Defoliation will be defined as removing the fan leaves from the plant during vegetative growth. At which exact time during the growth cycle we need to discuss, as it seems logical that there is variation needed amongst strains.

As far as extensively documenting every leaf variation and subtlety, that should be up to the entrant, and voters should give weight to their choice of winner as to their ability to do this in detail, vs. merely showing some plant pics along the way with the final product results.

I am fascinated with hearing the results in final product...side-by-side examples in pictures along with weight of the final crop.

Hope that helps!