[Douglas.Curtis]

Please read the thread.

What conversations have you had with your grower about their pest management methods? Unless you're 100% positive their plants have never touched neem/azadirachtin products, there's a really good chance you can safely use clean cannabis.

[GrowingHigher]

Originally Posted by Douglas.Curtis

I currently have almost no information on the source of my cannabis and dabs. I can definitely tell it's contaminated with something. lol Anyway, the issues vary with each batch of dabs and cannabis.

Agreed. Legal markets are beginning to address this. Though neem is generally regarded as safe. Oregon allows neem products on Cannabis. Interestingly I recently saw some U.S. bee conservation groups trying to ban neem products because of their negative effects on bees

Originally Posted by Douglas.Curtis

I'm working on setting up a double blind study next spring. I simply don't have the resources to do a side by side inside right now. Hell, I've had significantly little resources for 10+ years, due to these issues. I'll be treating at least 2 strains and marking the plants. One plant of each strain will be sprayed at week 2 of flower with 5ml/gallon of azamax or azatrol.

The plants will be tagged and everything processed under the same conditions. The resulting cannabis will be labeled and handed to someone else who will prepare and administer it, along with other samples of non-treated cannabis of the same batch.

I'll use dabs and joints of all samples, one sample a week, for an evening of dabbing and medicating. This will give me a week of clean cannabis, charcoal pills and kombucha to help clean out, when I use the aza tainted stuff.

Should be loads of fun. (not!) I'm very interested in having this over and done with.

To perform a double blind the subjects and the researchers must both not know which treatment is dispensed to which subjects (active vs placebo, in your case product from plants that had been treated with neem vs products from plants that hadn't)

This firstly means the subject cannot be the researcher. And that there must be another participant beyond this that knows and dispenses which treatment is given to which subjects (more than one treatment group with multiple subjects in each). You need more people.

Not saying your side by sides aren't worthy efforts that yield additional information, but it is a detailed case report, not a double blind.

Originally Posted by VamSogel

It has been about 5 days since my last ER visit and I have not smoked weed since then, nor do I plan on starting. But, it kills me to think that weed will forever be something I must abstain from. Speaking to any of you who have CHS, is there any chance I will be able to consume marijuana every so often, maybe a joint or bong hit every week or two? I have accepted the possibility that I will never be able to smoke weed again, but I also was curious to try using only CBD? I have heard of the benefits of CBD and I think it would be something very helpful to me. Am I able to consume strictly CBD without instigating another hyperemesis breakout? I am worried to try anything because I really do not want to experience it again. If you have any insight - please respond with your experience with CHS. Thanks

I quit for about a month after my last serious episode. I currently and for about the past year have not moderated my intake at all. I get morning sickness occasionally. No recent episodes.

[Douglas.Curtis]

Originally Posted by GrowingHigher

This firstly means the subject cannot be the researcher. And that there must be another participant beyond this that knows and dispenses which treatment is given to which subjects (more than one treatment group with multiple subjects in each). You need more people.

It's a double blind, neither the dispenser nor myself will know which is which, the samples will be produced by a third party. Am I growing the plants? Yes. Am I treating the plants? Yes. The delivery method will be dabs and joints, I won't be able to tell which is which, even if I've grown them.

More participants? Sure, anyone having CHS issues is welcome to stop on by to participate. I'd advertise, but icmag has a strict policy against scheduling meet ups. I personally would prefer a lot more people testing this out, so THEY don't have any questions. lol

The only reason I'm considering this experiment is because of other people. For me? My previous testing was as obvious as asking me if I get wet when I stand in a shower of water. I have zero doubts about my issues and neem/aza.

[Anne_Fetamine]

I was going to start a thread on this very topic. I've been feeling ill after smoking small amounts of a certain ACDC hemp strain (1% THC; 5% CBD) but I don't meet all the criteria for CHS. And I have so many questions about the disorder, like:

- Can a person with CHS ever go back to smoking small amounts once in a while after a long initial break? Or will any amount of cannabis use trigger puking in the future?

- Does it ONLY happen to long-term, heavy daily smokers of marijuana? Does "long term" include smoking daily in high school & college but then taking a 12 year break before starting up again? Or must the years of use be consistent and back-to-back?

- Did it exist prior to 2004 & just wasn't noticed, or did it really come about in '04?

- Do CBD and hemp products set off the vomiting or just marijuana with psychoactive amounts of THC?

I have no doubt this is a real thing...I just don't understand how it works. I know noob smokers can vomit from getting too high ("greening out") so maybe that's what's happening with CHS--the cannabinoids build up in the system & essentially get the person "too high". Or something. Second most likely option would be something in the growing methods of today's pot--fertilizers, pesticides, fungicides or other things used in growing super-potent commercial pot.

My symptoms just include stomach aches & nausea so far along with some loose bowels, but I overheat rather than desire a hot shower. And I haven't puked yet. Perhaps there's something nasty in this particular batch of hemp? My other strain doesn't seem to cause this reaction.

[Dog Star]

Maybe you smoke some buds that are protected right before harvest with
something dangerous chemical... people are sickos what kind of garbage they use
on cannabis,all for profit..

you need to grow your own,organic and to deny any bud that comes from
market.. this way you play against goverment,mafia,street dealers,etc..
thats best when you can play with them and not that them play with you..

and you will have cleanest meds that actually helps you feel well..

am use a lot of cannabis and CHS is for me like next galaxy in distance
but a main reason is i dont use dangerous protectives or anything that is
not organic material or compounds so mine plants are not exposed to
toxic chemicals..

I belive CHS comes from agro protectives,overload in chems and plants absorb
everything and incorporate this in tissue,later folks smoking this buds
and get poissoned then CHS hits..

[Douglas.Curtis]

Originally Posted by Anne_Fetamine

I was going to start a thread on this very topic. I've been feeling ill after smoking small amounts of a certain ACDC hemp strain (1% THC; 5% CBD) but I don't meet all the criteria for CHS.

What do you know about how it was grown and what it was treated with, if anything?

Originally Posted by Anne_Fetamine

And I have so many questions about the disorder, like:

- Can a person with CHS ever go back to smoking small amounts once in a while after a long initial break? Or will any amount of cannabis use trigger puking in the future?

It depends on whether your reaction is to cannabis itself (My research points to less than one percent of people who experience CHS), or whether you're you're reaction is to a neem product or other pesticide.

I personally had zero issues with cannabis until I moved to an area where neem/azadirachtin was heavily used. After years of issues and tracking down the source of the issues, I have identified the neem meal/oil/azadirachtin products as the cause of my issues. When I use *my* cannabis, which does not have any neem products in it, I have zero issues with CHS. I can smoke as much as I want, dab as much as I want, eat edibles as much as I want. Zero issues.

One bowl of "Sprayed up to the day of harvest" of aza tainted cannabis and I'm down for the count. Doesn't have to be concentrated, just heavily contaminated.

Originally Posted by Anne_Fetamine

- Does it ONLY happen to long-term, heavy daily smokers of marijuana? Does "long term" include smoking daily in high school & college but then taking a 12 year break before starting up again? Or must the years of use be consistent and back-to-back?

I've watched people with very little cannabis use begin to have CHS issues from dispensary cannabis. Your symptoms and the severity will depend on how tainted the cannabis is and how often you use it. Azadirachtin builds up in the body, because it apparently takes days to weeks for it to break down.

Originally Posted by Anne_Fetamine

- Did it exist prior to 2004 & just wasn't noticed, or did it really come about in '04?

The first cases appeared within a year or two of azadirachtin products being allowed in agriculture.

Originally Posted by Anne_Fetamine

- Do CBD and hemp products set off the vomiting or just marijuana with psychoactive amounts of THC?

As before, it depends on whether you have issues with cannabis itself or aza. The reports of people who have problems with cannabis itself have been very short on details. If anyone has more details on that, I'd really appreciate them sharing it.

Originally Posted by Anne_Fetamine

I have no doubt this is a real thing...I just don't understand how it works. I know noob smokers can vomit from getting too high ("greening out") so maybe that's what's happening with CHS--the cannabinoids build up in the system & essentially get the person "too high". Or something. Second most likely option would be something in the growing methods of today's pot--fertilizers, pesticides, fungicides or other things used in growing super-potent commercial pot.

CHS is cyclical vomiting and you're unable to control it. We're not talking about a white out. lol There are a lot of nutrients and pesticides which can cause stomach issues.

Originally Posted by Anne_Fetamine

My symptoms just include stomach aches & nausea so far along with some loose bowels, but I overheat rather than desire a hot shower. And I haven't puked yet. Perhaps there's something nasty in this particular batch of hemp? My other strain doesn't seem to cause this reaction.

Who grew them? There are other pesticides which can easily cause stomach aches, nausea and loose bowels. Again, what do you know about how each strain was grown?

Have a great new year, everyone.

[WishDoctor]

ok this is not new there are med references that go back ovwr 1000yrs,
also peppermint oil in organic pesticides causes this crap and give you numb mouth BAD!

I'm seeing tons of numb mouth pot in the commercial recreational and OMMP medical system.

def not med cannabis imo.
leaves a bad taste.

my wife has this and uses black peppercorn to stabilize. Dr Russo and I talked about this, it's the absence of specific terps too. straight from Dr Russo this goes back over 1000yrs and is in Persian medical books, was recognized by the Renaissance Docs, and is in the med lits, plus in the 1650, and 1700's all recorded in medical books of the past, it was called cannabis overdose.

and no you really can't go back to puffing, it gets worse and worse, you can alleviate the symptoms but atm there is no cure. straight from Russo.
the addition of certain terps will cause this to settle down, but there is no cure atm. It's not new and didn't come out since specific pesticides were used, wow that's complete bs with no proof.
Proof is in the med lits

[Galaxy420]

Originally Posted by WishDoctor

ok this is not new there are med references that go back ovwr 1000yrs,
also peppermint oil in organic pesticides causes this crap and give you numb mouth BAD!

I'm seeing tons of numb mouth pot in the commercial recreational and OMMP medical system.

def not med cannabis imo.
leaves a bad taste.

my wife has this and uses black peppercorn to stabilize. Dr Russo and I talked about this, it's the absence of specific terps too. straight from Dr Russo this goes back over 1000yrs and is in Persian medical books, was recognized by the Renaissance Docs, and is in the med lits, plus in the 1650, and 1700's all recorded in medical books of the past, it was called cannabis overdose.

and no you really can't go back to puffing, it gets worse and worse, you can alleviate the symptoms but atm there is no cure. straight from Russo.
the addition of certain terps will cause this to settle down, but there is no cure atm. It's not new and didn't come out since specific pesticides were used, wow that's complete bs with no proof.
Proof is in the med lits

old american hippies and Jamaican Rastas - are they vomiting over top of everything? I'm not aware of vomitting hippies or rastas who are smoking th eganga all the time... could be a rare cases every now and then but not normal reactions to cannabis..

it does make sense about the need for the sesquiterpenes though as they direct the bio-chemical pathway that monoterpenes take when you ingest them... the volatility/ evaporation rate of the compound determines how/ when/ where they are assimilated...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2449371/
Beta-caryophyllene is a dietary cannabinoid

[Douglas.Curtis]

Originally Posted by WishDoctor

my wife has this and uses black peppercorn to stabilize. Dr Russo and I talked about this, it's the absence of specific terps too. straight from Dr Russo this goes back over 1000yrs and is in Persian medical books, was recognized by the Renaissance Docs, and is in the med lits, plus in the 1650, and 1700's all recorded in medical books of the past, it was called cannabis overdose.

Citations please? Any reference to how any of the cannabis was grown?

Persian culture called the neem tree a sacred tree. It was heavily used back then for all kinds of things. Chances are, the cannabis causing overdose issues were grown near/under neem trees or neem meal/oil was used in some manner. Neem oil was regularly used by them for many, many things.

It's important to absorb information in context.


I'm not discounting CHS from 'only' cannabis exists, simply pointing out complete research is needed.
What are the sources of the cannabis your wife has issues with?

[weedaholic721]

Successful Treatment of Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome With Topical Capsaicin

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pu...cal-capsaicin/