[Douglas.Curtis]

Originally Posted by Loc Dog

I thought that neem was organic/natural.

Organic does not automatically mean "Safe," you're thinking of organic produce.


Organic hydrochloric acid will happily remove the hydrogen from your flesh until you die.
Many "organic" pesticides are harmful to humans.

Facts.

[Loc Dog]

I have a package of AzaMax I have never used. Box says "For Organic Production" and "OMRI listed for organic use". I am not suggesting that some people may have allergy to it. I get violently ill from clams, which are not considered dangerous, and some people could die from peanuts.

Do you know if the bud that causes you problems was sprayed with azadirachtin or watered with it. I did not know it can be fed to plants to prevent mites.

[Douglas.Curtis]

I have tested both spraying and root drench. Cannabis happily sucks it up and keeps it around for harvest time. Yes, the directions (which were not written for cannabis) say it's safe to spray up to the day of harvest. What a travesty.

I would look for outside sources of mites and use the aza on those plants, to help keep your grow structure clean of mite problems. Other than outdoor, non-cannabis use I wouldn't recommend it at all.

[aridbud]

Originally Posted by Loc Dog

I thought that neem was organic/natural.

Just what Douglas said...just because "organic" doesn't mean it's safe. We employ kinder/gentler methods to rid pests/mildew. Garlic, milk, chili water, etc, vs. Neem....toxic even though it's a plant based substance.

[Loc Dog]

Has there been any true evaluations of people smoking the same weed for six months with and without azadirachtin, to see if it is definetly the cause??? Ideally it would be blind test. Would think a university would be glad to do such a study, to have a large number of participants. It would have to be of people that have hyperemisis, since most have no reaction to it.

The only reason I am concerned is because I have lost entire grows to broad mites and russet mites/thrips. It is what I know works. Heating rooms to 120F is too hard. Only other thing that worked was Guardian, which was supposed to be natural but had nasty chemicals not listed, abamectin.

[Douglas.Curtis]

Originally Posted by Loc Dog

Has there been any true evaluations of people smoking the same weed for six months with and without azadirachtin, to see if it is definetly the cause??? Ideally it would be blind test.

I'm the only one I know of who's done a side by side test with 2 different strains at the same time. I tested spraying a 3ml/gal solution at week 2 of flower and also a root drench at the beginning of flower.

Both root drenched and sprayed was completely unusable by myself. Zero doubt. The clean plants from that run gave me no issues at all. Very cut and dried.

What I'm on the lookout for are people who say they have/had CHS from cannabis without neem or aza. So far I haven't found any, they've all been using contaminated cannabis.

I'd sign up for the study, as long as they paid my bills and gave me the necessary *f'ked* up drugs to keep me sane and out of massive pain. Only if there's a good chance it'll be banned. Seriously wouldn't enjoy it. That's for sure.

Yes, I could pick out the contaminated cannabis in a blind test. No contest. I can even smell it on the cannabis, from the more contaminated stuff my wife has picked up from dispensaries.

[lamp-hill]

Originally Posted by Douglas.Curtis

Yes, I could pick out the contaminated cannabis in a blind test. No contest. I can even smell it on the cannabis, from the more contaminated stuff my wife has picked up from dispensaries.

i am intruiged.
are you able to describe the smell? does it have a sweetness to the smell?

while budtending at a disp. last year one client (man between 35-50) claimed he recognized the "aza" sprayed smell (in many of the 90+ jars of strains available at the shop). he only said that it was a more sickly sweetish aroma. I immediatly tried to make myself keen to recongizing this contaminant smell, and found the smell present in many of the more dense, chemmy/hydro danks with names like nuken, supersilverhaze, mataroblue... etc.

personally i have always preferred O.D. grown for more "clean" euphoric medicinal FX.


on an unrelated aroma related note, i met a dispensary client who claimed to be able to smell CBD, and that it smelled like cherries to him. (?) anyone out there with CBD smelling ability claims? i thought cannabinoids were odorless.

[lamp-hill]

this neem/aza CHS controversy has given me second thoughts about neem as a cure-all. azadirachtin is a nonselective insect anti-feedant, antibiotic. if herbicides can poison humans, it's not far fetched to assume insecticidal ingredients would cause digestive/gut/dysbiosis/nausea/crohons/colitis-like symptoms. not to make light of these extremely painful inflammatory gut disorders that are unrelated, just my vocabulary may be ignorant and overlapping, regarding differences between crohns colitis and CHS.

it's just that i couldnt hep to notice many of the most hardcore gut-pained dispensary workers i've worked with were all into eating junkfood(mcdicks), listening to bad "trap"/etc. music, into chemmy indica danks, or far deep into a dabbing habit (using chem grown indica shatter products that probably failed as clean cured flowers). a whole generation of new cannabis users who have never experienced a clean product..... it's an LP illuminati plot conspiracy!!!!!lol!11!!


apparently neem wood/sticks are commonly chewed to a frayed end ad used as toothbrushes in india....


perhaps we should be boycotting "aza", and not neem? or is smoking neem just as bad as neem extract?
see i believe that many credible posters have pointed out already, that this azadirachtin contamination may be the most significant dimension to the CHS mystery than the unanswered question of whether the CBD/THC ratio effects the CHS.

the plot must thin with this one otherwise we can't trust weed grown organically. especially not certified organic. certified is just a tax for going back to the original natural standards. our standards have slipped so low that we're willing to pay certified taxes to zionists for basic standards our grandparents took for granted, all this certified biodynamic halal certified organic kosher bullshit azadirachtin poisoining of young people who just wanted to listen to snoop dogg casually is tripping me out in a bad way

[lamp-hill]

so say no to certified organic azadirachtin in inhaled cannabis products. but it's all good if it's edible?


it would be nice to believe that CBD to THC ratios are the key to the mystery. but the azadirachtin contaminated rabbit hole... is a deeper mystery. spoken of in hushed whispers.

"this bud has been sprayed i can smell it"


i gave myself mild CHS overdoing the +1g/day habit while consuming exclusively dispensary supplied DARKgreymarket local flowers , many with a sickly sweet smell that i originally thought was just "supersilverhaze like" and at the time i was certain that it had never happened to me before when i had naturalclean grown access. later, and espeically now, i am convinced i overdosed on sprayed bud, to achieve CHS. i was also consuming shatter pills orally, and fruit flavoured 100mg active beverages, all which were made from UNKNOWN sources with shady mg dose claims that seemed inconsistent.
it's scary to think you could be throwing up in a hospital after repeatedly overdosing on a growing additive that's certified organic. that's actually fucking bullshit actually. certified organic is starting more and more to appear as a bullshit tax on nature grown using monsanto allowed organicides that have effects similar to other poisons like glyphosates, which have the inevitable effect of poisoining populations consuming the staple foods grown using those chemicals. glyphosate/round-up has been implicated in cases of serious gut disorders that many assume to be "gluten-intolerance" or "maybe crons or MS(or was it fibromyalgia?)"


sorry for the uncontrollable rant

[Douglas.Curtis]

Originally Posted by lamp-hill

i am intruiged.
are you able to describe the smell? does it have a sweetness to the smell?

It smells like a bottle of azamax/azatrol. Yes, it's kinda sweet. Tough to describe without it being in front of me. I know I can recognize it when it's applied heavily enough or close enough to harvest.

Originally Posted by lamp-hill

while budtending at a disp. last year one client (man between 35-50) claimed he recognized the "aza" sprayed smell (in many of the 90+ jars of strains available at the shop). he only said that it was a more sickly sweetish aroma. I immediatly tried to make myself keen to recongizing this contaminant smell, and found the smell present in many of the more dense, chemmy/hydro danks with names like nuken, supersilverhaze, mataroblue... etc.

Aza is supposed to break down over time and through exposure to light. It makes sense to me the denser nugs would protect the inner parts of the buds from it breaking down as quickly.

Originally Posted by lamp-hill

so say no to certified organic azadirachtin in inhaled cannabis products. but it's all good if it's edible?

Nope, I've made edibles from contaminated cannabis and it affects me the same. Even more so due (I'm sure) to it being much more concentrated.

Originally Posted by lamp-hill

it would be nice to believe that CBD to THC ratios are the key to the mystery. but the azadirachtin contaminated rabbit hole... is a deeper mystery. spoken of in hushed whispers.

"this bud has been sprayed i can smell it"

That would actually be a disaster, at least we can stop spraying aza. Were it CBD/THC ratios, it would mean cannabis itself has problems for animals. Very not good.

Originally Posted by lamp-hill

i gave myself mild CHS overdoing the +1g/day habit while consuming exclusively dispensary supplied DARKgreymarket local flowers , many with a sickly sweet smell that i originally thought was just "supersilverhaze like" and at the time i was certain that it had never happened to me before when i had naturalclean grown access. later, and espeically now, i am convinced i overdosed on sprayed bud, to achieve CHS. i was also consuming shatter pills orally, and fruit flavoured 100mg active beverages, all which were made from UNKNOWN sources with shady mg dose claims that seemed inconsistent.

It's all the unknown sources which muddle up the information stream. I'm so happy prohibition is dropping across the states, more and more often people are able to get a full accounting of exactly what is in/on the cannabis they're getting.

Originally Posted by lamp-hill

it's scary to think you could be throwing up in a hospital after repeatedly overdosing on a growing additive that's certified organic. that's actually fucking bullshit actually.

Totally agree on this point. I've spent time throwing up in hospitals and wanting a shower. These days I only hear the ICK, when people say their cannabis is all organick. Shouldn't be that way.

Originally Posted by lamp-hill

certified organic is starting more and more to appear as a bullshit tax on nature grown using monsanto allowed organicides that have effects similar to other poisons like glyphosates, which have the inevitable effect of poisoining populations consuming the staple foods grown using those chemicals. glyphosate/round-up has been implicated in cases of serious gut disorders that many assume to be "gluten-intolerance" or "maybe crons or MS(or was it fibromyalgia?)"


sorry for the uncontrollable rant

The glyphosate is new to me as being similar in issues. I know for a fact none of the cannabis I grew (which caused me issues) was grown with glyphosate. It would not surprise me to find glyphosate does cause issues of it's own. As for the rant, I totally understand. Anyone who's spent time with this issue knows how badly it interferes with the enjoyment of life. F'ing rude, really.