Interesting you say that^ I never eat breakfest...

[Dready_jake]

I didn't either for years

[GrowingHigher]

Hello,

I just want to add my personal experiences to this discusion. I am a Cannabis lover, and will be till the day I day. That said, I do believe I have Cannabinoid Hyperemisis Syndrome (CHS), though I have never been officially diagnosed. I also have a friend who has been diagnosed with this.

I think it may be valuable for people to list their set of symptoms and circumstances in order to further evaluate the causes and solutions to this problem. So I will do that here (in what seems to be the only thread on the subject).

First I want to make it clear there is a similar syndrome, cyclic vomiting syndrome, that presents almost the same way, but is not associated with cannabinoid use. This may be particularly confusing if you are a cannabis user, but you are actually suffering from cyclic vomiting syndrome.

My personal usage history is as follows:
16 years of regular use, probably 85% vaporized with 10% smoked cannabis and 5% blunts (cannabis and tobacco). I have occasionally eaten Cannabis at a rate of about 2-5 times a year. I began smoking commercial bud, some Mexican schwagg, but for the last 10 years at least 95% I have used was homegrown. I have used neem products on most of my grows.

My symptoms:
-Occasional morning nausea occurring for the past 2-3 years. Often associated with sneezing. (normally I eat breakfast immediately, however am unable to do so when I wake up with this nausea.)

-During 2016 I have experienced 2 "episodes" characteristic of CHS. Once around February of this year, and again in May. These consisted of sudden onset, violent vomiting that lasted nearly exactly 24 hours before subsiding relatively quickly.

This is the worst vomiting I have ever experienced. I could not drink even a sip of water for an entire day. If I had been in this state any longer I would have required IV fluid.

Other potential symptoms:
-I often take very hot showers and am chronically cold, as is described in some case reports. I am even physically allergic to cold temperatures, breaking out in itchy hives when exposed. Though I have never associated either of these with my nausea.

Other potential factors:
-Both of my 24-hour episodes occurred during travel. Stress of traveling and jet lag may have played a role, however I travel frequently.
-I also suffer from occasional migraines, characterized by a visual aura, followed by an intense 4-10 hour headache occasionally associated with vomiting.

How I responded:
I discovered the description of CHS following my first 24-hour episode. In response I immediately restricted my usage to once a day (before sleeping) and with a minimal amount. This was about 10% of the amount I had been using. I continued this for several weeks. It seemed to help reduce morning nausea, though did not eliminate it.

After several weeks I resumed smoking more, but began mixing Harle-Tsu at about 1:1 or more with any high THC herb I was smoking. (I do not know the exact ratios of the Harle-Tsu: it was grown from F2 seed and does not have noticeable psychoactivity.)

Eventually I returned usage with no ill effects to about 75% of my pre-episode rate. Then in May I had my second episode.

After this I again restricted usage, but this time less severely and immediately began including Harle-Tsu in mixtures again. I dropped my usage of Harle-tsu over time, but still smoke it regularly and do not restrict my usage of it as I do high-THC varieties. I increase my replacement of high-THC varieties with Harle-Tsu if I have episodes of morning sickness.

This seems to be helping control my potential CHS symptoms, and I have not had a 24-hour episode in 4 months. I expierianced a moderate morning nausea episode last week, following several weeks of unrestricted high-THC use (moved back to the west coast, had to try some local goods!). I have again restricted my high-THC variety usage to a few times a day, while heavily using Harle-Tsu, without restriction.

In conclusion:
I hope none of you ever experience this or a similar ailment, though if you do you will gain a new appreciation for chugging a glass of water.

I personal believe this to be a real syndrome. Probably caused by changes in Cannabinoid receptor quantity or responsiveness in my brain following adaptation to many years of exogenous stimulation.

I also suspect (as you may have inferred from my response to my symptoms) that CBD and possibly other cannabinoids may offer relief and treatment to those suffering from this syndrome. Both by limiting the psychoactivity of THC, as well as activating anti-nausea pathways independent of those activated by THC (which are clearly going awry in people with this syndrome).


Please share your experiences if you think you may be suffering from CHS.

[sadpanda]

Originally Posted by Blue Socks

The only problem I have with cannabis is I think I'm allergic to it. When I'm trimming or watering in short sleeves sometimes I will start to itch. I usually get around that by wearing long sleeves and gloves when handling the plants.

lol, SAME! Resin makes my skin incredibly itchy so i always wear longsleeve shirt and powderless disposable gloves when trimming. Makes cleaning yourself after a lot easier too. I also take fexofenadine (my antihistamine of choice, gentle but very effective) beforehand, as pollen can make me sniffly'n'sneezy too, plus it also helps reduce any itching

I wonder what the topical balms/ointments are like!? but i guess as they're a solvented extract it's a different kettle of fish to straight pure resin

[Bubbleblower]

Don't you guys like math?

We have a population of 1571 of which, based on demographics, at least 30% is over 50 years old, so at least 471 persons.
ZERO POINT ZERO (0.0) out of these 471 meet the "inclusion criteria", none of them suffer from CHS.

Versus 9% of users younger than 50, that's a huge and significant difference that demands an explanation.

Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman

maybe what they are smoking has changed?

That must be it.
Research in the Netherlands found older and younger people reacted very different to the rise in potency,
after it became popular to use Lewis acids in fertilizers and THC levels went up from 8 to 20% in just 4 years time.
Experienced users all turned away from this zombie weed, while younger users only wanted more of it.

Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman

are you sure the Cannabis was not poisoned in some way with something or molds? Did you sample their Cannabis for toxins? Does all Cannabis they consume do this to them?

Good questions.

The Lewis acids convert CBD and other terpenoids to THC, but the plant needs these for its defences against fusarium.
The nitrogen in the fertilizers further increases the disease intensity of fusarium head blight by a few 100%.
The fusarium produces deoxynivalenol (DON) aka vomitoxin, which in humans causes vomiting, nausea and abdominal pain.

[GrowingHigher]

Originally Posted by Bubbleblower

Don't you guys like math?

We have a population of 1571 of which, based on demographics, at least 30% is over 50 years old, so at least 471 persons.
ZERO POINT ZERO (0.0) out of these 471 meet the "inclusion criteria", none of them suffer from CHS.

Versus 9% of users younger than 50, that's a huge and significant difference that demands an explanation.




That must be it.
Research in the Netherlands found older and younger people reacted very different to the rise in potency,
after it became popular to use Lewis acids in fertilizers and THC levels went up from 8 to 20% in just 4 years time.
Experienced users all turned away from this zombie weed, while younger users only wanted more of it.

What population are you talking about? This section makes no sense.

Originally Posted by Bubbleblower

The Lewis acids convert CBD and other terpenoids to THC, but the plant needs these for its defences against fusarium.
The nitrogen in the fertilizers further increases the disease intensity of fusarium head blight by a few 100%.
The fusarium produces deoxynivalenol (DON) aka vomitoxin, which in humans causes vomiting, nausea and abdominal pain.

Your post is confusing and wrong. THC content is mostly genetic. I have never seen anything that suggests the lack of CBD in high THC cultivators increases Fusarium susceptibility. Please show me if you have any more information.

Lastly, vomitoxin poisoning presents similarly as food borne illnesses, and does not present as CHS is described.



This whole thread is a mass of conspiracy theory. Yes, this is a newly described syndrome with unclear etiology. However is it most likely associated with long- term Cannabis use. Now lets assume that to be true, unless evidence shows otherwise, so that we can move past that and figure out how to control it.

[Bubbleblower]

Originally Posted by GrowingHigher

What population are you talking about?

The one in the research article we are discussing:

Originally Posted by Thomas Paine

Cannabinoid hyperemesis: a case series of 98 patients.

PATIENTS AND METHODS:
We constructed a case series, the largest to date, of patients diagnosed with CH at our institution. Inclusion criteria were determined by reviewing all PubMed indexed journals with case reports and case series on CH. The institution's electronic medical record was searched from January 1, 2005, through June 15, 2010. Patients were included if there was a history of recurrent vomiting with no other explanation for symptoms and if cannabis use preceded symptom onset.
Of 1571 patients identified, 98 patients (6%) met inclusion criteria.

RESULTS:
All 98 patients were younger than 50 years of age. Among the 37 patients in whom duration of cannabis use was available, most (25 [68%]) reported using cannabis for more than 2 years before symptom onset, and 71 of 75 patients (95%) in whom frequency of use was available used cannabis more than once weekly. Eighty-four patients (86%) reported abdominal pain with cyclic vomiting. The effect of hot water bathing was documented in 57 patients (58%), and 52 (91%) of these patients reported relief of symptoms with hot showers or baths. Follow-up was available in only 10 patients (10%). Of those 10, 7 (70%) stopped using cannabis and 6 of these 7 (86%) noted complete resolution of their symptoms.

CONCLUSION:
Cannabinoid hyperemesis should be considered in younger patients with long-term cannabis use and recurrent nausea, vomiting, and abdominal pain. On the basis of our findings in this large series of patients, we propose major and supportive criteria for the diagnosis of CH.

Why do only younger people have these symptons, while older people that are more prone to disease and have a longer history of cannabis use, don't?
At least 42 out of the 471 persons older than 50 should be suffering from it, not 0, otherwise there should be a special explanation for that.

Originally Posted by GrowingHigher

Your post is confusing and wrong.

Confusing may be, but certainly not wrong.


Lewis acids convert CBD and other terpenoids to THC according to Prof. Mechoulam:
Conversion of cbd to delta8-thc and delta9-thc


Nitrogen in fertilizers increases the disease intensity of fusarium head blight by a few 100%:
The Effect of Nitrogen Fertilization on Fusarium Head Blight development and Deoxynivalenol Contamination in Wheat


Deoxynivalenol causes vomiting, nausea and abdominal pain in humans:
Deoxynivalenol and its toxicity

Originally Posted by GrowingHigher

I have never seen anything that suggests the lack of CBD in high THC cultivators increases Fusarium susceptibility.

Me neither, it's actually better to have less CBD, because that means more terpenes (as long as you don't convert them):
Inhibitory effect of cyclic terpenes (limonene, menthol, menthone and thymol) on Fusarium verticillioides MRC 826 growth and fumonisin B1 biosynthesis

Originally Posted by GrowingHigher

Lastly, vomitoxin poisoning presents similarly as food borne illnesses, and does not present as CHS is described.

It could present itself in many ways, because it breaks down your resistance, but vomiting, nausea and abdominal pain are common symptons.
DON is dangerous: Deoxynivalenol: a trigger for intestinal integrity breakdown

[GrowingHigher]

Thanks for the clarification about the demographic differences you were talking about. That is much clearer. This is somewhat a premature conclusion, however, since this was just the number of patients searched in the database of case reports for CH. It is just as likely that older patients were more likely to have other medical conditions that cause hyperemesis, to have begun using Cannabis to treat emeiss rather than the other way around, or not use cannabis currently. They literally just searched a data base for "cannabinoid OR cannabis OR marijuana AND vomiting OR emesis OR hyperemesis" then applied their criteria of "(1) long-term marijuana use before the start of symptoms, (2) a history of recurrent vomiting, and (3) the absence of a major illness that could explain the symptoms." This simply isn't a good sample to make demographic statements about.

Again, the lewis acid section still doesn't make sense. The link you provided is talking about ex planta, not in planta, cannabinoid conversion (i.e. semisynthetic THC manufacture from CBD). Cannabinoid quantities and ratios in live plants are, within a range given the environment, genetically determined. This is most definitely wrong as you presented it.


The link about deoxynivalenol is about dietary intake of trichothecenes, not inhalation. There is no evidence here that supports what you are suggesting


My point remains that there is absolutely nothing to suggest that CHS has anything to do with contaminated Cannabis. This is almost certainly a cannabinoid associated syndrome.

I personally can guarantee that my Cannabis has been free of Fusarium contamination. Furthermore, most Cannabis with Fusarium probably never makes it to market since it is a fairly devastating disease when Cannabis is infected with it. Your theory would be more plausible if it were a common contaminant, like Botrytis cinerea.

[weedaholic721]

I'll add my 2 cents to the issue. I have noticed smoking strains high in myrcene and beta caryophyllene produce slight nausea when used in high doses. My theory is not due to cannabinoid modulation but affects on other receptors, mainly opioid receptors. Myrcenes effects have been shown the be reversible with naloxone, proving it's effect on endogenous opioids or direct effect of the receptors themselves. I believe this effect plays a major role in atleast some of the CHS cases, due to low patient tolerance and/or high dose consumption.

[angelgoob]

when quitting cannabis I had a slight naseua. I could understand now that if I overdid cannabis and wasn't getting high anymore simply ingesting TONS of cannabinoids and if the stars were aligned it will happen. So it does happen in some people probably prone to it.