Vote "NO" on Proposition AA... - Colorado - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums

barnyard · 10-12-2013, 09:09 PM

This week the Denver Mayor and City Council threatened me with a year of jail for smoking a J on the front porch of my home. Totally ridiculous.

This is just a few weeks before Coloradans vote on the excessive taxation scheme of Proposition AA. Bad timing folks.

Here's a basic explanation of Proposition AA - using conservative numbers - from an editor on the Western slope:

https://westernslopewatchdog.com/2013...roposition-aa/

"It was 1974 when I first smoked marijuana, finding relief from pervasive insomnia, severe anxiety, social ackwardness, lack of enthusiasm for food, and various other problems that I later decided had to be genetic in nature.

In 1975, I wrote a science fiction story predicting the legalization of marijuana.

In 2012, Colorado voters brought my prediction to reality. The benefits of legalization include: depriving cartels and terrorists of black-market funding; freeing police resources to fight real crime; lowering the price of pot, making it less appealing to get-rich-quick illegal dealers; establishing an access system that excludes teenagers; and, ending a judicial bias against blacks, hispanics and us poor white hippies.

Amendment 64, which legalized marijuana in Colorado, suggested to the legislature that it might want to consider a small excise tax to fund the agency that would regulate purity, potency, weights and measures, and compliance with the new, admittedly experimental law.

In their infinite lack of wisdom, the Colorado legislature came back to the voters with an atrocity called Proposition AA, wanting to implement a 10 percent wholesale tax and 15 percent retail tax on marijuana sold in retail stores. No retail tax at all was authorized by Amendment 64 – the amount of the excise tax was clearly limited to 15 percent.

Under medical marijuana legalization, prices of pot have dropped from $400 per ounce to the range of $175 to $280. A 25 percent tax could push prices back up as high as $355 per ounce, close to the black market price of $400.

That means that illegal dealers would set the price at $300, undercut the government-taxed retail stores, and keep their illegal businesses going full steam. What’s the point of legalization if the illegal street dealers, who will sell to kids, keep on going full steam?

Because only about 10 to 12 percent of Colorado residents consume marijuana, the legislature thinks the other 88 to 90 percent will be willing to vote in a 25-percent “sin tax” on marijuana to fund schools and heavy-handed marijuana regulations.

This is a bad idea, and it should be voted down. If this proposition loses, then the state sales tax of 2.9 percent will apply to retail marijuana, along with whatever local governments add, and that’s enough. Forty percent will still go to schools, and the rest will go to legal marijuana compliance.

The proposed tax would not apply to medical marijuana, encouraging even more people with questionable medical claims to seek medical marijuana cards, overburdening an already overburdened system.

The whole point of Amendment 64 was to treat marijuana exactly as alcohol is treated in Colorado, and there’s no 25 percent sin tax on alcohol in this state.

Marijuana will provide plenty of money to state and local governments without Proposition AA. There’s no need for an excessive, 25-percent sin tax on marijuana… it’s just more governmental greed."

VOTE NO ON PROPOSITION AA!!!

Hydrosun · 10-12-2013, 09:24 PM

Kids can get beer kids can get weed. Just understand that it is a parent and or role model chosen by the kid that will keep them from drinking or smoking. Also who cares if someone wants a medical rec? The whole concept of QUESTIONABLE medical claims is moot because ALL in CO can grow under 64.

I agree with your position, just don't like those few points.

satva · 10-13-2013, 05:13 AM

The 1-year in jail for marijuana fumes drifting into a neighbors yard is absurd, drifting towards fascism. There is no way you can smoke in your yard and not have the fumes drift into a neighbors yard.

Considering Colorado voters voted marijuana use legal, Colorado politicians have once again shown that they are not interested in the will of the people. I always encourage people to send an email/letter to their council representative when they disagree with governments interpretation or enforcement of the law.

In the case of marijuana smoke migration, perhaps sending a couple of emails/letters every day is appropriate.

Public opinion polls now show that + 60% of Americans are in favor of all Senate and house representatives being fired, for their inaction on the 2014 fiscal year USA budget. Congress is not doing the job they were elected to perform and in my opinion, and the opinion of +60% of Americans they should be fired and replace by other willing to perform the job they were elected to perform.

i live in a North Denver suburb, but Boulder people are very liberal, but the government of Boulder is socialistic, and very restrictive of individuals rights. While my girlfriend very much wants to buy a house in Boulder, I am extremely reluctant to support Boulder with my money until Boulder politicians prove that they represent the people. The examples of Boulder political suppression are countless, ranging from building codes, to arrests of colleges students and homeless for violations that most cities throughout America would laugh at the violations Boulder consider serious. A $500 / $1500 violation for smoking a cigarette on the Pearl Street Mall. How close to fascism is that? A 1-year fine for smoking a marijuana in your yard when marijuana is legal, how close to fascism is that.

Remember, 60% of Americans what all of the USA Senate and House of Representative fired, and about 9% of American believe their Congressional representatives are doing an acceptable work.

I always believed marijuana would be legalized in my lifetime as, in my experience the negative health impact of marijuana is far less than alcohol. What is amazing to me is the fact that the the government and politicians have decided that marijuana is government business. never in a million years would i have thought that the government would regulate the legalization of marijuana.

The saving grace of Amendment 64 is allowing Colorado citizens to grow 6 plants. Even being independently wealthy, I never plan to pay Colorado state taxes on marijuana. It's just the principal, even when connoisseur black market seeded marijuana was $40 / ounce and sinsemilla was $60 / ounce in the 1970's - I grew my own.

One of the main benefits of Amendment 64 is the dismantling of foreign black market drug cartels. Drug cartels have destroyed their local indigenous cultures. How many hundreds of thousands of people have been killed by foreign drug cartels? Colombia's FARC has killed over 250,000 people, Mexico's cartels have killed hundreds of thousands more, and so on.

While I support the six plants approved in Amendment 64, (grow your own) and I'm oblivious to commercial marijuana culture, I understand its important to keep after-tax legal sale prices lower than black market prices to dismantle foreign black market drug cartels. America has funded $50 billion a year in the war on drugs and its been one of the most unsuccessful political fiascos in American history.

Write your congressional representative and tell them to save the $50 billion each year, and follow Colorado and Washington by legalizing marijuana in the USA.

00420 · 10-13-2013, 11:37 AM

Sativa I agree with you 99.9%

Quote:

While I support the six plants approved in Amendment 64, (grow your own)

6 plants hardly meets anyone's needs except 6 monster outdoors then your smoking the same all year plant #'s shouldn't even be counted the size of the garden in square footage & or power usage should be it is more based to a "grow your own" that way. I flower 36 keep 20 or so moms and have clones/veg about 10 just for my personal use why should that be held against me? I'm under 1200 watts on the power grid and in a 6x10 6foot high area I harvest 4 plants weekly sog style.

A 25% tax is just peer greed or maybe the idea behind it is jack it up thinking people won't go buy it & if they do we come ahead I'm all for both sides being fair but being in Cali alls I can do is hope that there is some sort of reason to all the madness

paladin420 · 10-13-2013, 12:50 PM

Damn guys. Here I thought Michigan politicians were the lowest form of Intestinal parasite, just to find out there is a competition going on.

U gotta love how they use our money to fuck us with.

barnyard · 10-14-2013, 05:26 AM

"Just understand that it is a parent and or role model chosen by the kid that will keep them from drinking or smoking." Excellent point Hydroson.

Good suggestions satva. In fact, here's a link for a petition from the Marijuana Policy Project that the Denver crowd can use to voice their opinion against Proposition AA:

https://www.change.org/petitions/resp...share_petition

0042, IMO, cannabis should be fully legal under a free market with regulation used to confirm safety of the various products. I agree with you, WTF difference does it make if someone is growing 6 plants or 100 hundred plants especially when it's for personal use. The weed still smokes the same.

Using our money to fuck with us indeed paladin420. The irony is that some of the tax will be used against some cannabis users and growers. Then we get into this bullshit of "good growers" and "bad growers" based on plant count when in fact people should be able to freely grow as many plants as they want.

Grow it, grow it, grow it, just grow it!

satva · 10-14-2013, 06:59 AM

growing 6 plants or 100 hundred plants
Amendment 64 says 6 plants so if you smoke a lot, then grow 6 big plants. eight Nederland men just got busted for selling 70.6 pounds for $239,000 ~ $3,380 / pound. Its about 8.8 pounds each, but i assume they all got arrested on a charge involving the inter-state sale of over 50 pounds. The arrest was initiated by the point of sale in Florida, with cooperation from Colorado Sate Police.

If your one of the eight arrested, I'm sure its not a pretty situation. This is exactly waht Amemendment 64 is trying to avoid. Black market prices exceeding Colorado sales prices, the Florida ploice offered more than double the price offered by Colorado Medical Marijuana stores.

Apparently double the price was an offer to good to pass up~~~~~~~~~

Didn't Washington State add 75% sales tax, that's basically a double.

The politicians are hoping to pocket the premium between Black Market prices and Colorado Medical Marijuana pricing.

If you grow, your own, and smoke your own, you avoid the madness - its all good.

00420 · 10-14-2013, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnyard

0042, IMO, cannabis should be fully legal under a free market with regulation used to confirm safety of the various products. I agree with you, WTF difference does it make if someone is growing 6 plants or 100 hundred plants especially when it's for personal use. The weed still smokes the same.

Grow it, grow it, grow it, just grow it!

There's 2 real problems with going 100% legal people grow way more then personal then there's people who want not to just grow and that would want to jack it from someone who does & crime starts I would be in for larger penaltys for cannabis crime unrelated to growing smoking & personal use & have some sort of limit that is fair for any user it's unreasonable that one man can have 486 pounds but so is the 8 ounces I can have under my med card how about if someone rob's my cannabis they get's a 40 year min anyone can have a pound on them and 5 at home unlimited plants in a 12x12 2500watt max or outdoors 15x20 if some can't grow there own with that area something is wrong.

Hydrosun · 10-14-2013, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satva

growing 6 plants or 100 hundred plants
Amendment 64 says 6 plants so if you smoke a lot, then grow 6 big plants. eight Nederland men just got busted for selling 70.6 pounds for $239,000 ~ $3,380 / pound. Its about 8.8 pounds each, but i assume they all got arrested on a charge involving the inter-state sale of over 50 pounds. The arrest was initiated by the point of sale in Florida, with cooperation from Colorado Sate Police.

If your one of the eight arrested, I'm sure its not a pretty situation. This is exactly waht Amemendment 64 is trying to avoid. Black market prices exceeding Colorado sales prices, the Florida ploice offered more than double the price offered by Colorado Medical Marijuana stores.

Apparently double the price was an offer to good to pass up~~~~~~~~~

Didn't Washington State add 75% sales tax, that's basically a double.

The politicians are hoping to pocket the premium between Black Market prices and Colorado Medical Marijuana pricing.

If you grow, your own, and smoke your own, you avoid the madness - its all good.

The FREE market isn't FREE when paid PIGS are actively seeking to buy cannabis from people in other states! That is CRAZY ENTRAPMENT, but those 8 guys are already replaced by 80 more. Keep trying to be dicks FL and FEDS.

As to WA the Dec 1 date is quickly approaching but I haven't heard of any retail businesses opening or licenses being granted.

Hydrosun · 10-14-2013, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00420

There's 2 real problems with going 100% legal people grow way more then personal then there's people who want not to just grow and that would want to jack it from someone who does & crime starts I would be in for larger penaltys for cannabis crime unrelated to growing smoking & personal use & have some sort of limit that is fair for any user it's unreasonable that one man can have 486 pounds but so is the 8 ounces I can have under my med card how about if someone rob's my cannabis they get's a 40 year min anyone can have a pound on them and 5 at home unlimited plants in a 12x12 2500watt max or outdoors 15x20 if some can't grow there own with that area something is wrong.

I fucking hate the concept of HATE CRIME but that is exactly what cannabis growers face. They are preyed upon because criminals know that growers are in a lower social class and unlikely to call the PIGS.

I'm not big on prison sentences but home invasion is a very serious crime and should hold very serious penalties. If you are growing in your own home you have the highest expectation of privacy and sovereignty. Anyone who violates your rights on your property should receive very harsh punishment.

10-12-2013, 09:09 PM	#1
barnyard Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: digging in the dirt Posts: 787	Vote "NO" on Proposition AA... This week the Denver Mayor and City Council threatened me with a year of jail for smoking a J on the front porch of my home. Totally ridiculous. This is just a few weeks before Coloradans vote on the excessive taxation scheme of Proposition AA. Bad timing folks. Here's a basic explanation of Proposition AA - using conservative numbers - from an editor on the Western slope: https://westernslopewatchdog.com/2013...roposition-aa/ "It was 1974 when I first smoked marijuana, finding relief from pervasive insomnia, severe anxiety, social ackwardness, lack of enthusiasm for food, and various other problems that I later decided had to be genetic in nature. In 1975, I wrote a science fiction story predicting the legalization of marijuana. In 2012, Colorado voters brought my prediction to reality. The benefits of legalization include: depriving cartels and terrorists of black-market funding; freeing police resources to fight real crime; lowering the price of pot, making it less appealing to get-rich-quick illegal dealers; establishing an access system that excludes teenagers; and, ending a judicial bias against blacks, hispanics and us poor white hippies. Amendment 64, which legalized marijuana in Colorado, suggested to the legislature that it might want to consider a small excise tax to fund the agency that would regulate purity, potency, weights and measures, and compliance with the new, admittedly experimental law. In their infinite lack of wisdom, the Colorado legislature came back to the voters with an atrocity called Proposition AA, wanting to implement a 10 percent wholesale tax and 15 percent retail tax on marijuana sold in retail stores. No retail tax at all was authorized by Amendment 64 – the amount of the excise tax was clearly limited to 15 percent. Under medical marijuana legalization, prices of pot have dropped from $400 per ounce to the range of $175 to $280. A 25 percent tax could push prices back up as high as $355 per ounce, close to the black market price of $400. That means that illegal dealers would set the price at $300, undercut the government-taxed retail stores, and keep their illegal businesses going full steam. What’s the point of legalization if the illegal street dealers, who will sell to kids, keep on going full steam? Because only about 10 to 12 percent of Colorado residents consume marijuana, the legislature thinks the other 88 to 90 percent will be willing to vote in a 25-percent “sin tax” on marijuana to fund schools and heavy-handed marijuana regulations. This is a bad idea, and it should be voted down. If this proposition loses, then the state sales tax of 2.9 percent will apply to retail marijuana, along with whatever local governments add, and that’s enough. Forty percent will still go to schools, and the rest will go to legal marijuana compliance. The proposed tax would not apply to medical marijuana, encouraging even more people with questionable medical claims to seek medical marijuana cards, overburdening an already overburdened system. The whole point of Amendment 64 was to treat marijuana exactly as alcohol is treated in Colorado, and there’s no 25 percent sin tax on alcohol in this state. Marijuana will provide plenty of money to state and local governments without Proposition AA. There’s no need for an excessive, 25-percent sin tax on marijuana… it’s just more governmental greed." VOTE NO ON PROPOSITION AA!!!
	Quote 5 members found this post helpful.

10-12-2013, 09:24 PM	#2
Hydrosun I love my life Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Mostly in my own head Posts: 4,961	Kids can get beer kids can get weed. Just understand that it is a parent and or role model chosen by the kid that will keep them from drinking or smoking. Also who cares if someone wants a medical rec? The whole concept of QUESTIONABLE medical claims is moot because ALL in CO can grow under 64. I agree with your position, just don't like those few points. __________________ "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." ~ Samuel Adams "To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association -- the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, and the fruits acquired by it." ~Thomas Jefferson The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny. ~Fed 47, A. Hamilton & J. Madison
	Quote 2 members found this post helpful.

10-13-2013, 05:13 AM	#3
satva Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Colorado Posts: 786	The 1-year in jail for marijuana fumes drifting into a neighbors yard is absurd, drifting towards fascism. There is no way you can smoke in your yard and not have the fumes drift into a neighbors yard. Considering Colorado voters voted marijuana use legal, Colorado politicians have once again shown that they are not interested in the will of the people. I always encourage people to send an email/letter to their council representative when they disagree with governments interpretation or enforcement of the law. In the case of marijuana smoke migration, perhaps sending a couple of emails/letters every day is appropriate. Public opinion polls now show that + 60% of Americans are in favor of all Senate and house representatives being fired, for their inaction on the 2014 fiscal year USA budget. Congress is not doing the job they were elected to perform and in my opinion, and the opinion of +60% of Americans they should be fired and replace by other willing to perform the job they were elected to perform. i live in a North Denver suburb, but Boulder people are very liberal, but the government of Boulder is socialistic, and very restrictive of individuals rights. While my girlfriend very much wants to buy a house in Boulder, I am extremely reluctant to support Boulder with my money until Boulder politicians prove that they represent the people. The examples of Boulder political suppression are countless, ranging from building codes, to arrests of colleges students and homeless for violations that most cities throughout America would laugh at the violations Boulder consider serious. A $500 / $1500 violation for smoking a cigarette on the Pearl Street Mall. How close to fascism is that? A 1-year fine for smoking a marijuana in your yard when marijuana is legal, how close to fascism is that. Remember, 60% of Americans what all of the USA Senate and House of Representative fired, and about 9% of American believe their Congressional representatives are doing an acceptable work. I always believed marijuana would be legalized in my lifetime as, in my experience the negative health impact of marijuana is far less than alcohol. What is amazing to me is the fact that the the government and politicians have decided that marijuana is government business. never in a million years would i have thought that the government would regulate the legalization of marijuana. The saving grace of Amendment 64 is allowing Colorado citizens to grow 6 plants. Even being independently wealthy, I never plan to pay Colorado state taxes on marijuana. It's just the principal, even when connoisseur black market seeded marijuana was $40 / ounce and sinsemilla was $60 / ounce in the 1970's - I grew my own. One of the main benefits of Amendment 64 is the dismantling of foreign black market drug cartels. Drug cartels have destroyed their local indigenous cultures. How many hundreds of thousands of people have been killed by foreign drug cartels? Colombia's FARC has killed over 250,000 people, Mexico's cartels have killed hundreds of thousands more, and so on. While I support the six plants approved in Amendment 64, (grow your own) and I'm oblivious to commercial marijuana culture, I understand its important to keep after-tax legal sale prices lower than black market prices to dismantle foreign black market drug cartels. America has funded $50 billion a year in the war on drugs and its been one of the most unsuccessful political fiascos in American history. Write your congressional representative and tell them to save the $50 billion each year, and follow Colorado and Washington by legalizing marijuana in the USA.
	Quote 2 members found this post helpful.

10-13-2013, 12:50 PM	#5
paladin420 FACILITATOR Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Northern Michigan in the toulies!! Posts: 4,401	Damn guys. Here I thought Michigan politicians were the lowest form of Intestinal parasite, just to find out there is a competition going on. U gotta love how they use our money to fuck us with.
	Quote 1 members found this post helpful.

10-14-2013, 05:26 AM	#6
barnyard Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: digging in the dirt Posts: 787	"Just understand that it is a parent and or role model chosen by the kid that will keep them from drinking or smoking." Excellent point Hydroson. Good suggestions satva. In fact, here's a link for a petition from the Marijuana Policy Project that the Denver crowd can use to voice their opinion against Proposition AA: https://www.change.org/petitions/resp...share_petition 0042, IMO, cannabis should be fully legal under a free market with regulation used to confirm safety of the various products. I agree with you, WTF difference does it make if someone is growing 6 plants or 100 hundred plants especially when it's for personal use. The weed still smokes the same. Using our money to fuck with us indeed paladin420. The irony is that some of the tax will be used against some cannabis users and growers. Then we get into this bullshit of "good growers" and "bad growers" based on plant count when in fact people should be able to freely grow as many plants as they want. Grow it, grow it, grow it, just grow it!
	Quote 1 members found this post helpful.

10-14-2013, 06:59 AM	#7
satva Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Colorado Posts: 786	growing 6 plants or 100 hundred plants Amendment 64 says 6 plants so if you smoke a lot, then grow 6 big plants. eight Nederland men just got busted for selling 70.6 pounds for $239,000 ~ $3,380 / pound. Its about 8.8 pounds each, but i assume they all got arrested on a charge involving the inter-state sale of over 50 pounds. The arrest was initiated by the point of sale in Florida, with cooperation from Colorado Sate Police. If your one of the eight arrested, I'm sure its not a pretty situation. This is exactly waht Amemendment 64 is trying to avoid. Black market prices exceeding Colorado sales prices, the Florida ploice offered more than double the price offered by Colorado Medical Marijuana stores. Apparently double the price was an offer to good to pass up~~~~~~~~~ Didn't Washington State add 75% sales tax, that's basically a double. The politicians are hoping to pocket the premium between Black Market prices and Colorado Medical Marijuana pricing. If you grow, your own, and smoke your own, you avoid the madness - its all good.
	Quote 1 members found this post helpful.