Question for Mike or other Mandala growers. - Mandala Seeds - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums

Safari · 04-14-2006, 07:39 PM

I have 8 Hashberrys and 3 Satori's that were sent into bloom a couple of days ago. This is an organic soil grow and the plants are currently in 1 gal containers and doing well. The plants range from about 7 to 10 inches tall.
Here is my question. Once I sex the plants I was planning to do a final transplant into bigger containers, but how big? 2, 3, or 4 gal.

Space is an issue. Currently there are a total of 30 plants in the box which is 3ft by 3ft and there is very little excess room. Obviously there will only be about 1/2 the plants after sexing, but I believe the box will be pretty full once they stretch. None of the plants have been topped. This has been sort of a SOG from seed grow going for the biggest top colas as possible.

How much will the final container size effect the yield and overall size of the plant?

Rellikbuzz · 04-14-2006, 07:50 PM

Hey Safari! I'm sure Mike will chime in on this one but if you're planning to run up to 15 plants in a 3' x 3' space, I wouldn't go much bigger than the 1 gallons you're in now. No bigger than a 2 gallon for sure but I doubt you could get 15-2gallon pots to fit in that space.

Fernandro has a 40 plant SOG going right now and he flowers all the way through in one gallon pots. His plants will end up at around 18" - 24 tall and are true single cola plants. In a 3' x 3' space, I think you're going to be locked into the 1 gallons just to get them to fit in that space.

Pot size definitely has an affect on overall plant size. Bigger pots = bigger plants. Having said that, "Tech Mike" with Advanced Nutrients has grown a plant to full maturity (3 1/2' tall) in a Super Big Gulp cup! Obviously, just to prove a point that it could be done.

If your trying to keep your plants at a managable height and get 15 of them in that space, I would stay in the one gallons and let the plants finish in them. If you started flowering at 7 - 10" in height, you'll probably end up around 15 - 18" after stretch. Hope this helps!

RB

Safari · 04-15-2006, 09:53 PM

Thanks for the advice RB. I have 18 of 30 plants in 1 gal containers and the other 12 in 6 inch round containers. I had to plant a second group of seeds because my germ rate on group 1 wasn't as high as exptected (my fault not the mandala seeds), so group 2 is about 2 weeks behind, but catching up in size. I think I will move the 18 plants in 1 gal containers to the 2 gal containers, and the 12 smaller plants to 1 gal containers. I think that should fit in the space.

I can handle the plant stretching heigth wise because my box is 5 ft tall. The only concern with heigth is my 400 penetrating the canopy, but that shouldn't matter since I am just trying for big top colas. My concern with the bigger containers was how much the plants would bush out and fill up my 3ft by 3ft space. Does it matter if the plants are packed in with all the fan leaves all pushed together? This is only my second grow, and the 1st time I flowered only 4 plants, which were topped, and that totally wasted the space I had available. I thought a SOG method would use my space well, but aybe 30 plants was too many, I will and have to wait and see. Like I said, the plants were about 7-10 inches when sent to 12/12, and most of them were working on their 5th or 6th node, so like you said they should finish somewhere around 18th inches, and hopfully most of that will be one big cola.

Thanks RB, I was think of going with 3 or 4 gal and that would have been too big. Now all I have to do is wait 50-65 days so I can try out these genetics.

Group1 Hashberry
Satori
Papaya - Nirvana
Blue Apollo - Joey Weed

Group2 Northern Lights - Nirvana
White Rhino - Nirvana

MandalaMike · 04-17-2006, 12:05 PM

Hi Safari,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safari

I think I will move the 18 plants in 1 gal containers to the 2 gal containers, and the 12 smaller plants to 1 gal containers. I think that should fit in the space.

This is what I was going to recommend too. :wink:
Adapt container size to the plant size. This also reduces potential problems of nutrient and water requirements under the many different strains (small or weak plants in big containers can accidentally be overwatered for example).
With the Mandalas you should certainly opt for 2 gal containers for the following reasons:
- they will make the most of the extra root space and nutrients
- you can go a long way with minimum feeding/plant care
- optimal root space, nutrients and light supports yield

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safari

I am just trying for big top colas.

Hashberry and Satori are good candidates for that!
But due to the potential crowding and to reduce this, prune away the lower branches that are not receiving light.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safari

Does it matter if the plants are packed in with all the fan leaves all pushed together?

This does not necessarily affect the development of the top colas that are getting plenty of light. BUT, it can lead to problems during advanced flowering such as a lot of humidity getting trapped between the plants and bud mold appearing. If leaves overlap and there is no air moving them, then the water from the transpiration makes them paste together, and this could cause leaf fungus/mold as well. Generally, this is a less common problem, because you should have a rotating fan moving the air adequately in the grow space.
Lower branches will be affected that don't receive light. The buds on these branches can be quite leafy and underdeveloped. Prune lower branches and/or opt for less plants and more quality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safari

but maybe 30 plants was too many

Overcrowding is something I personally do not recommend. It makes plant care difficult and can lead to various complications. You have difficulties checking plants for pests (and they love to hide in the hardest to reach corners *lol*), mold, water use. Since you have several different strains from various breeeders this makes it even more challenging. In the end, you may have less yield than with fewer plants! This is why it may be a good idea to look at the number of females after sexing, and if they don't fit comfortably into the space, remove the weakest.

If you have more questions then feel free to ask. I wish you a great grow and thanks for trying out Hashberry and Satori!

Mike

Safari · 04-17-2006, 07:51 PM

Thanks for all the advice Mike. The fact that you are available to answer questions is great. I didn't really plan on 30 plants, it just kind of happened. I used your germination method from your website and I think I let the container get too dried out the first time so my germ rate was only 70%, so I germed more and got a much higher rate the second time and ended up with too many plants. I will consider eliminating some of the weaker females if there are too many.

Here is a great story about the viability of your seeds from this current grow. I started all seeds in 4 inch pots of soil without soaking just like your method said. Like I mentioned, the seeds got dried out and not all sprouted. I gave the ones that didn't come up 2 weeks with a good amount of nursing, including watering by spoon. After 2 weeks I dumped the 5 mandala containers that didn't sprout back into my 50 gal container full of soil, which was about 75% full. I moved all the other seeds to 6 inch containers, watered them really well and then left for vacation for 5 days. When I returned the mandala seedlings looked really good. About a week after I returned from vacation I received my second batch of seeds. I promptly germed them and several days later when to plant them. When I opened my 50gal container full of soil what did I find but a 3 inch plant growing in it. When I went to take this plant out it had a long white main root about a foot long. I transplanted what I could of the root structure into a 1 gal container and it has survived. I estimate it had to have been in the 50 gal container with the lid on for somewhere around 10-14 days, after being in 4 in container for 2 weeks. The leaf structure on the plant is huge. The first tiny set of leaves, can't remember what those are called, where about 10x bigger than normal. It only has 3 nodes, but the fan leaves are very big and not shaped normal at all. I wish I could post a picture of this plant, but my better half won't let me. She doesn't think it is safe, and I if I want to continue with this hobby I must do everything that makes her comfortable.

Anyway, thanks Mike. Can't wait until these babies start to bloom.

MandalaMike · 04-18-2006, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safari

I estimate it had to have been in the 50 gal container with the lid on for somewhere around 10-14 days, after being in 4 in container for 2 weeks.

That's a fantastic survival story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safari

The leaf structure on the plant is huge. The first tiny set of leaves, can't remember what those are called, where about 10x bigger than normal.

The smooth, round leaves right at the bottom are called cotyledon...maybe you mean those. These can get quite large on Mandalas, but the first set of true leaves, the ones with a single leaflet, they can get huge!

I hope you don't mind me includinging a photo of a young Satori with 3 internodes on your behalf. It shows the second pair of leaves with an 6,5" knife as size comparison. At the bottom you see one of the single leaflets that measure at 3.9".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Safari

I wish I could post a picture of this plant, but my better half won't let me. She doesn't think it is safe, and I if I want to continue with this hobby I must do everything that makes her comfortable.

Best to listen to your better half... I am sure she is your angel of protection. :wink:

Grow on,
Mike

Safari · 04-18-2006, 08:45 PM

Cotyledon, thats it. I knew it started with a C. Anyway, the cotyledon on this mutated HB or Satori, not sure which one, are bigger than either set of leaves on your picture. The first single set of leaves after that are even bigger, but the leaf structure or shape is very different than the other plants or your picture. I am assuming the plant has mutated from lack of light for so long, but it is amazing that it is still growing. It just looks like it wants to be huge. If I had the space I would put it in a huge 4 gal container to see how big it would get, but instead it will probably be pulled to make space for the others.

Thanks for the advice Mike. I hope to try all your genetics before too long. Which of your strains is your personal favorite(s) and why?

Also, any new strands on the horizon?

04-14-2006, 07:39 PM	#1
Safari Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 113	Question for Mike or other Mandala growers. I have 8 Hashberrys and 3 Satori's that were sent into bloom a couple of days ago. This is an organic soil grow and the plants are currently in 1 gal containers and doing well. The plants range from about 7 to 10 inches tall. Here is my question. Once I sex the plants I was planning to do a final transplant into bigger containers, but how big? 2, 3, or 4 gal. Space is an issue. Currently there are a total of 30 plants in the box which is 3ft by 3ft and there is very little excess room. Obviously there will only be about 1/2 the plants after sexing, but I believe the box will be pretty full once they stretch. None of the plants have been topped. This has been sort of a SOG from seed grow going for the biggest top colas as possible. How much will the final container size effect the yield and overall size of the plant?
	Quote

04-14-2006, 07:50 PM	#2
Rellikbuzz Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Texas/USA Posts: 857	Hey Safari! I'm sure Mike will chime in on this one but if you're planning to run up to 15 plants in a 3' x 3' space, I wouldn't go much bigger than the 1 gallons you're in now. No bigger than a 2 gallon for sure but I doubt you could get 15-2gallon pots to fit in that space. Fernandro has a 40 plant SOG going right now and he flowers all the way through in one gallon pots. His plants will end up at around 18" - 24 tall and are true single cola plants. In a 3' x 3' space, I think you're going to be locked into the 1 gallons just to get them to fit in that space. Pot size definitely has an affect on overall plant size. Bigger pots = bigger plants. Having said that, "Tech Mike" with Advanced Nutrients has grown a plant to full maturity (3 1/2' tall) in a Super Big Gulp cup! Obviously, just to prove a point that it could be done. If your trying to keep your plants at a managable height and get 15 of them in that space, I would stay in the one gallons and let the plants finish in them. If you started flowering at 7 - 10" in height, you'll probably end up around 15 - 18" after stretch. Hope this helps! RB __________________ Plant a seed . . . and give something back to life that has given so much to you!! "People would learn more from their mistakes if they weren't so busy making excuses for them"
	Quote

04-15-2006, 09:53 PM	#3
Safari Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 113	Thanks for the advice RB. I have 18 of 30 plants in 1 gal containers and the other 12 in 6 inch round containers. I had to plant a second group of seeds because my germ rate on group 1 wasn't as high as exptected (my fault not the mandala seeds), so group 2 is about 2 weeks behind, but catching up in size. I think I will move the 18 plants in 1 gal containers to the 2 gal containers, and the 12 smaller plants to 1 gal containers. I think that should fit in the space. I can handle the plant stretching heigth wise because my box is 5 ft tall. The only concern with heigth is my 400 penetrating the canopy, but that shouldn't matter since I am just trying for big top colas. My concern with the bigger containers was how much the plants would bush out and fill up my 3ft by 3ft space. Does it matter if the plants are packed in with all the fan leaves all pushed together? This is only my second grow, and the 1st time I flowered only 4 plants, which were topped, and that totally wasted the space I had available. I thought a SOG method would use my space well, but aybe 30 plants was too many, I will and have to wait and see. Like I said, the plants were about 7-10 inches when sent to 12/12, and most of them were working on their 5th or 6th node, so like you said they should finish somewhere around 18th inches, and hopfully most of that will be one big cola. Thanks RB, I was think of going with 3 or 4 gal and that would have been too big. Now all I have to do is wait 50-65 days so I can try out these genetics. Group1 Hashberry Satori Papaya - Nirvana Blue Apollo - Joey Weed Group2 Northern Lights - Nirvana White Rhino - Nirvana Last edited by Safari; 04-15-2006 at 10:08 PM..
	Quote

04-17-2006, 07:51 PM	#5
Safari Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 113	Thanks for all the advice Mike. The fact that you are available to answer questions is great. I didn't really plan on 30 plants, it just kind of happened. I used your germination method from your website and I think I let the container get too dried out the first time so my germ rate was only 70%, so I germed more and got a much higher rate the second time and ended up with too many plants. I will consider eliminating some of the weaker females if there are too many. Here is a great story about the viability of your seeds from this current grow. I started all seeds in 4 inch pots of soil without soaking just like your method said. Like I mentioned, the seeds got dried out and not all sprouted. I gave the ones that didn't come up 2 weeks with a good amount of nursing, including watering by spoon. After 2 weeks I dumped the 5 mandala containers that didn't sprout back into my 50 gal container full of soil, which was about 75% full. I moved all the other seeds to 6 inch containers, watered them really well and then left for vacation for 5 days. When I returned the mandala seedlings looked really good. About a week after I returned from vacation I received my second batch of seeds. I promptly germed them and several days later when to plant them. When I opened my 50gal container full of soil what did I find but a 3 inch plant growing in it. When I went to take this plant out it had a long white main root about a foot long. I transplanted what I could of the root structure into a 1 gal container and it has survived. I estimate it had to have been in the 50 gal container with the lid on for somewhere around 10-14 days, after being in 4 in container for 2 weeks. The leaf structure on the plant is huge. The first tiny set of leaves, can't remember what those are called, where about 10x bigger than normal. It only has 3 nodes, but the fan leaves are very big and not shaped normal at all. I wish I could post a picture of this plant, but my better half won't let me. She doesn't think it is safe, and I if I want to continue with this hobby I must do everything that makes her comfortable. Anyway, thanks Mike. Can't wait until these babies start to bloom.
	Quote

04-18-2006, 08:45 PM	#7
Safari Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 113	Cotyledon, thats it. I knew it started with a C. Anyway, the cotyledon on this mutated HB or Satori, not sure which one, are bigger than either set of leaves on your picture. The first single set of leaves after that are even bigger, but the leaf structure or shape is very different than the other plants or your picture. I am assuming the plant has mutated from lack of light for so long, but it is amazing that it is still growing. It just looks like it wants to be huge. If I had the space I would put it in a huge 4 gal container to see how big it would get, but instead it will probably be pulled to make space for the others. Thanks for the advice Mike. I hope to try all your genetics before too long. Which of your strains is your personal favorite(s) and why? Also, any new strands on the horizon?
	Quote