[DabSnob]

Good morning/afternoon/Evening to all of you.

decided today (8/29) to start a Side by Side of fasilitor and armor Si. with all the talk about Silica being a huge part of any nutrient regimen i had to see if im rightfully spending the $200 on 250ml of fasilitor ( every 3 months ) vs. spending $25 on 950ml of Armor Si.
I'm interested in hearing from anyone who has used these products before. i was debating on doing a 3rd comparison of food grade DE but dont have any available to me locally.

heres what i know about each product-

Fasilitor-
Usage rates- full - .6ml/gal
max - 1.2ml/gal (first 2 weeks flower)
active ingredients-
Silicic Acid / Si(OH)4 - 1.4%
soluble potash - .6%
Boron - .1%
Molybdenum - .001%

Armor Si-
Usage rates- mild - 1.25ml/gal
full - 2.5ml/gal
max - 5ml/gal
Active Ingredients-
Silicon Dioxide / SiO2 - 10%
soluble potash - 4%

Grow Info-
Strain- Fire OG BX3
Atmosphere-dialed in @ 74degrees/day w/ 45% humidity - 68degrees/night w/ 55% humidity
Nutes- baseboost,startboost,bloomboos t,peakboost,massboost,finalebo ost,Ecozen.
Soil- Roots original + 10% soilreef Biochar + 1 TBS/gal dolomite lime + Baseboost ( 100gr ) in 3gal pots
Lighting- first 4 of 12/12 600w lumatek. last 5 weeks 1000w sun system.

Pictures to follow when my lights kick on this evening.

[Bongstar420]

They are both overpriced. You shouldn't pay for advertising. Any source of silica will do. I use either the cheapest or closest source of Potassium silicate available as long as it is only Potassium silicate with no other ingrediants. You only need about 5-10ppm dissolved silica. Check it:

https://customhydronutrients.com/zen...products_id=68

This will perform the same as any silicate source which includes Fasilitor and ArmorSi. Notice the difference in price and how many effective doses you get.

Fasilitor is most likely just more bioavailable than Potassium silicate in the immediate sense. The Potassium silicate is bioavailable btw as leaves will become noticeably more leathery and stems very resistant to breaking. Over something like week, I doubt there is a difference. You could use a quadruple effective dosage factor for Fasilitor vs Potassium silicate and the latter still comes out to be more the better choice since it is like a hundred times more cost effective. There is nothing special about the micro's in the Fasilitor btw.

Just watch out for reactions. Silicate ferts tend to precipitate silica polymers in concentrated acidic conditions as well as with some salts. Add silica last to your working solutions and you should minimize any incompatibility problems.

[Hash Man]

^^^
Yup agsil 16h for the win. I am still working through my 50 lb bag. Its so much cheaper than any other silica you are basically throwing money away by not getting it...

That being said, i will watch if u continue. I am hearing good stuff about the facilitator but am not close to sold on it.

[Hash Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Bongstar420

They are both overpriced. You shouldn't pay for advertising. Any source of silica will do. I use either the cheapest or closest source of Potassium silicate available as long as it is only Potassium silicate with no other ingrediants. You only need about 5-10ppm dissolved silica. Check it:

https://customhydronutrients.com/zen...products_id=68

This will perform the same as any silicate source which includes Fasilitor and ArmorSi. Notice the difference in price and how many effective doses you get.

Fasilitor is most likely just more bioavailable than Potassium silicate in the immediate sense. The Potassium silicate is bioavailable btw as leaves will become noticeably more leathery and stems very resistant to breaking. Over something like week, I doubt there is a difference. You could use a quadruple effective dosage factor for Fasilitor vs Potassium silicate and the latter still comes out to be more the better choice since it is like a hundred times more cost effective. There is nothing special about the micro's in the Fasilitor btw.

Just watch out for reactions. Silicate ferts tend to precipitate silica polymers in concentrated acidic conditions as well as with some salts. Add silica last to your working solutions and you should minimize any incompatibility problems.

^some of that is wrong
Facilitator is boric and silicic acids in a specific ratio and strength. It is a different product than silicate additives. In organic soil mixes these acids are made naturally from boron and silica breaking down, however if you grow in a hydroponic medium this will not happen. You need to add the correct acids. I have done an entire year of side by side experiments and facilitator has doubled my yield, and just makes the plants healthier and easier to care for in general. It has cut my work load in half, and cut my worries in half too.

You can replace the activator with fulvex and vitamino, and the rest of the line is not necessary, but the Facilitator is a great product.

you are right about always adding the facilitator last.

[exploziv]

will there be any control sample with no Si supplementation in your experiment? that would be very interesting!

[Bongstar420]

Originally Posted by Hash Zeppelin

^some of that is wrong
Facilitator is boric and silicic acids in a specific ratio and strength. It is a different product than silicate additives. In organic soil mixes these acids are made naturally from boron and silica breaking down, however if you grow in a hydroponic medium this will not happen. You need to add the correct acids. I have done an entire year of side by side experiments and facilitator has doubled my yield, and just makes the plants healthier and easier to care for in general. It has cut my work load in half, and cut my worries in half too.

You can replace the activator with fulvex and vitamino, and the rest of the line is not necessary, but the Facilitator is a great product.

you are right about always adding the facilitator last.

I use been using cock roach killer for Boric acid for like 5 years- its 99% pure and happened to be most convenient

Im willing to bet I could match any output with cheap ass chemicals for the same NPKCaMgSFeMnZnBCuMo ratio and concentrations in the same grow system. I just dont believe you need anything fancy in the way of nutrients beyond humate/fulvates which are just old ass compost and not really fancy. But hey, I also dont believe a few grams of silica could do much more than 5% to the yield. Its more of a keep your ass out of the fire by resisting damage.

[Trend]

Go do a run and find out. I mean if you're willing to claim you can match anyone's output with some generic salts I'd love to see this myself. Not just output but quality aswell. At the very least you will see your veg time cut almost in half.

[Coconutz]

Silica should be added first. Even aptus says the same about their own. Its on the interwebz right now,

https://aptus-usa.com/fasilitor

How to Use FaSilitor

Add FaSilitor FIRST to your reservoir of clean water every feeding during all stages of plant growth. It’s very important to add FaSilitor before any other nutrients and boosters to maximize effectiveness.
- See more at: https://aptus-usa.com/fasilitor#sthash.8wQuKfq0.dpuf


Tips from the field

Very important! FaSilitor is an ultra-pure liquid and should not be contaminated. Always mix FaSilitor first in your reservoir filled with clean water (reverse osmosis or dechlorinated). The precise chemistry of FaSilitor is negatively affected if water already contains added fertilizers (especially NPK).

- See more at: https://aptus-usa.com/fasilitor#sthash.8wQuKfq0.dpuf

Either way, aptus is a ripoff. People shouldnt be buying shit from scam artists like these.
Gallons of silica are like $30

[UnknownProphet]

In over 10 years every grower I've come across that complains about the cost of nutes has ALWAYS 100% of the time shown me cheap looking results. It's a mentality/ego thing which reminds me of that show 'Extreme Cheapskates'. Cutting corners for cost alone can itself be costly. Sure I could build my own soil and make my own nutrient concoctions, but some of us don't want to have 50 pounds of manure or salts lingering around like we are planning some uni b*mber shit.

Besides that I do look forward to OPs results.

[EclipseFour20]

Originally Posted by Bongstar420

...Any source of silica will do. I use either the cheapest or closest source of Potassium silicate available as long as it is only Potassium silicate with no other ingrediants. ...

Hmmm...you might reconsider your conclusion. The Si found in Potassium Silicate (Silica Blast, Pro-tekt, etc) is not in the form of Plant Available Silica (PAS)...rather it will take weeks for it to be converted to PAS. There are only two types of PAS: amorphous silica (think food grade DE) and monosilicic acid (very few Potassium Silicate products include this "expensive" ingredient).

Sorry if I rained on anyone's parade, Cheers!

BTW, sand is mostly silica right? Real cheap right? Zero PAS.