[floralheart]

Polyhybrid pollen chucking is fairly hated among most boards when it comes to the practices of professional commercial cannabis seed breeders.

Would you like the breeders and their practices more if they continued to work their hybrid lines?

Would depth make the difference for you?

What if every once in a while breeders pushed more of their selections further down the line to an F6, or crossed projects after an F4?

Any more respect earned?

Withholding my personal view on it for now. I'm interested in your view.

[dank.frank]

Personally....YES.

I've never understood how someone (myself included) can make something, tell you (us) how good it is, and then NEVER work within the line itself, any further. I mean, if it was SO good, then why not seek within it to bring out the BEST attributes of that line and make it more consistent year by year or even from one release to the next.

I have several of my lines I want to isolate from within and then build upon further. It only makes sense to me to continue working toward an isolated, single, stable, phenotype. I mean if the breeder can't find the best within his own line - or identify it when someone else finds it - doesn't that sort of make them a hack?

I think the difference comes in to what PEOPLE (consumers) want. They want the newest hottest name on the block as fast as possible - and THAT is why you have 1,000 various named clones. Some are LEGIT elite plants that rock the head - others are just fancy names put on something to up it's value and make others hunt and beg and increase trade value, etc.

Personally, there is a LOT of great work being done....but I have faith in the lines I STARTED with (Stank Bros) and will continue to work within those lines and will continue to improve them. It's easy to lose focus and get caught up in what everyone "wants" - but the fact is, 90% of folks are only chasing what someone else said they wanted...and so begins the circus.

How can you take the newest "elite" and after one run toss pollen on it from 4 males and KNOW that they will all be dank crosses? You can't...not honestly - you can only cross your fingers and hope like hell you didn't make bunk...lol.

It's one thing to do such for your personal pleasure and enjoyment...it's an entirely different story to start naming them and putting them up for sale!

Anyway, I'm not pointing any fingers...I LIKE being able to pick up seeds from a bunch of different vendors / breeders and enjoy the variety - I just wish folks would CONTINUE working certainly lines or isolated phenos to the point of being more stable. Mostly so purchasing seeds isn't hit or miss - and that way, I know, when a breeder describes the pheno they love in something, that I'll actually have a chance at experiencing something similar...

Good thread! Hope others can keep it conversational and it doesn't get too heated!!



dank.Frank

[Pepe le skunk]

Do Polyhybrid's have hybrid vigor? Always wondered if the lines were tweeked to stabilize a specific pheno before they were crossed out to make a hybrid and then a polyhybrid.
Is selfing the best way to stabilize a polyhybrid? Is it possible to stabilize a trait of a hybrid or polyhybrid? Or by going to an F6 will it stabilize a strain?

What have been the results of offspring after F3?
Interesting question?

[fishinnutt]

While I don't really have a problem with poly-hybrids, I would like to see more worked F3 and beyond poly lines. The gift of the next ultimate cut can come from any seed and even though the odds might be against you with certain paths, some of the most awesome elites are just unintended bagseed (crosses, s1's or otherwise)

[jayjayfrank]

the level of effort and knowledge required to 'properly' take something out past F5 is a whole lot more than what is known to be true(and dank) at the F1 stage

and the thing is this. you can work a seedline almost till release and then get busted ala rez

or you can spend two years making crosses only to find out you picked the wrong path...

as it stands the money you get from a proper IBL seed release would dictate a higher seedpack price.


so im inclined to say that the business minded said "fuck it" and did 20% of the work for 80% of the price as enough return on investment to call yourself successful

it would take no less than a year to take something out to F5 assuming a 2 month cycle. thats at best if you miraculously get all your selections totally correct.

the real value as a grower(not breeder) is taking a handful of seed and pheno hunting in your garden till you are satisfied. the thing is some people expect all of their plants to look the same...

so it comes down to grower education. i would say the smarter growers have a nicer selection of seed, polyhybrid F1 or not

[PetFlora]

About 6 months ago I was gifted 2 packets of seeds from a new poly Breeder BrandX Seeds

Woody Haze X White Widow pollinated with BubbleGum male

G13 X White Widow pollinated with BubbleGum male

I believe both are F1

I decided to do a blog growing WHx, along with my other experiments- Hydro Halo Drip (but used as a shower)+ Air Pots and also a DWC Bubble system + ordinary LED tubes/household globes

I took 4 clones, put 2 in my HOT5 tent and 2 in my LED Tube tent- both 2 x 4.

The HOT5 clones finished 5 weeks ago, but had 3+xs the light 324 v 110 led. Looks like in the end the race will be a whole closer than you, or I, would think. Next grow I will be adding ~ 90 more led watts. Anyway...

IMHO, both mother and clone smoke is amazing. Confirmed with outstanding reviews from ~6 different sources (several guys told me their women were a lot less inhibited). Now that's added value!

The LED clones have probably 5 more days to harvest. I have a couple IC threads with some pics of how they look today

The buds under the led tubes are looking mighty fine, too.

2 G13 X seedlings are about 1.5" tall as I write this. The breeder said it is his favorite

From the first WHx seeds I managed to get one male, and made ~ 30 seeds using a couple low branches on the mother

I started 5 of the new seeds at the same time as the G13

This is my only experience but dam

I agree with the 20/80 rule, aka the 80/20 rule, but growing is the addiction, and with all addictions we are driven to r the next exploratory phase, which is polys.

IMO there will always be a market for uber quality, and if polys deserve it, then so be it. Maybe a write up in one of mags would kick off the pricing. Knowing what little I now know about polys, I would have no problem paying $20-25 per seed, but maybe it takes $50 per seed to make it a viable business

Looking forward to what you guys have to say

[dank.frank]

I will say this as well...in thinking more on this topic:

Females are great fine and dandy - but MALES - being able to select the RIGHT male, is the KEY to being a successful breeder. And once you have a male and you learn what set of traits he is prepotent for in the next filial generation - you are able to utilize him in many ways, across a vast number of females, very efficiently. A prime example of this would be Bohdi.

Male selection is key. As TomHill tried to teach us - using selfing to identify females that have the least amount of variable offspring, from within themselves, also is a great tool to utilize when breeding a line towards stability / a single gene expression. The key to making a new strain...not just a hybrid, is having an arsenal of plants, breeding parents, that breed true for specific traits, without infusing a great variance of expressions within the next generation.

Meaning, this plant adds vigor, this plant adds frost, this plant shortens flowering time, etc - ALL without adding a massive amount of varied phenotypes within the next generation. These plants, CAN AND MUST BE FOUND, within the same seed line, within the same family, if you will.

THIS is how you further a line to stability, while at the same time, pushing a plant not towards a specific pheno, so to speak, ie plant A - but rather towards a specific pheno, ie all the best traits being expressed by one plant, consistently, regardless if it is plant A or plant Z.

Tom tried to get us all to understand the futility of trying to Bx a plant over and over again, without ever taking the time to understand exactly what traits we were compounding...

Fortunately, I was able to gleam from him what he was saying - I understood and saw the light. It is not A x B = magical gold. It is A x A = A, A x A = B, A x A = C - and learning what to do with A, B and C and understanding why those traits surfaced in the first place, and then learning how to control the frequency in which those traits surface within the future generations...



dank.Frank

preach it brother frank !! i like poly hybrids, ya never know what ya gonna get !!

[VerdantGreen]

the thing is, some peeps are looking for an outstanding keeper plant in a pack or two - to mum up and use for clones. polyhybrids may be a good bet for them.

line breeding polyhybrids is likely to be less successful. if line breeding is what you want to do then its better to start with a true F1 (as in two ibl's crossed together rather than two crosses crossed together).

VG

Originally Posted by VerdantGreen

line breeding polyhybrids is likely to be less successful. if line breeding is what you want to do then its better to start with a true F1 (as in two ibl's crossed together rather than two crosses crossed together).

VG

im not an expert but i think linebreeding can be useful, creating F2 and further will be more difficult with polyhybrids but outcrossing the best females to proven males like true bred males and linebred the multi lines you created is a good breeding strategy i feel.