LED Lights - Which ones Are Better

Hey Everyone,

Thanks for taking the time to look at this thread. As some have you prob already know im a total newbie when it comes to growing, I already Bought my 600w HPS lights because i didnt have the money for the LED ones. But Next Grow I will get them .

My Question to you all. Which one is the best led lights I can get.

SGS-160 LED Grow Light
http://area51lighting.com/the160.html

Apollo LED Grow Lights
http://growblu.com/240x3w-apollo-led-grow-light

Advanced LED DIAMOND SERIES - 400w
http://www.perfectgardens.com/LED-Grow-Lights-Diamond-Series-400w-p/7000-004.htm

http://www.357magled.com/357_magnum_LED.html

357 Magnum Plus LED Grow Light

http://www.357magled.com/357-Magnum-Plus-LED-Grow-Light_p_15.html

Solar Storm
http://www.californialightworks.com/Products_SolarStorm.htm





Thanks I just do not want to buy one and its crap and ive wasted my money, I have no idea what Im looking for when it comes to LED lights.


Thanks

count me in for this thread - its high on my mind as well. I've got a cpl adjustable 1k galaxy 's, tossed/gave out a cpl 400w hps, still got a ~200w mh, cpl 50w t5's etc...

just makes more sense to quit wasting the heat. though i would like to point out that without something like a mini-split as the source of the cooling, as LED's DO still need SOME cooling, your efficiency goes right out the window. literally.

it'd be nice to do a 3'x6'x6' flower chamber and pull 2lb's.. it'd be even nicer if it was dead silent.

keyword: efficiency

I like the DS400, its been good to me so far. The shape is good for a 4' area, so they're ideal for my tents that wide. I want to get 2 more. That site you posted is $50 more than from Advanced themselves.

Phychotron said:

I like the DS400, its been good to me so far. The shape is good for a 4' area, so they're ideal for my tents that wide. I want to get 2 more. That site you posted is $50 more than from Advanced themselves.

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beautiful looking meds there sir!

that's with the 10w led's? how's the bud density compared to a 400/600/1k hps?

Phychotron said:

I like the DS400, its been good to me so far. The shape is good for a 4' area, so they're ideal for my tents that wide. I want to get 2 more. That site you posted is $50 more than from Advanced themselves.

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Damn Thats awesome, thanks for the info might have to invest into those next grow for sure then . Thanks for the picture as well

Let me ask you this is the Diamond Series XML - 10W CREE XML Better then the Diamond Series LEDs - Extreme 3w LED Technology? Sorry Im just asking because is see 3w led and now these 10w

the DS series only has the 10w cree's on the XML DS lights. The XML are more expensive watt for watt, and doesn't quite have the shape I like--square vs rectangular.

Bud density is nice, the lights have the power to grow large dense buds, but the area coverage is not as large as an HPS. If you get the lower end lights density will usually suffer. I havent tried any others you posted so i'm not sure what they're capable of, but after trying the ds400 its hard to experiment with others knowing how well this one works.

Personally I would not recommend any of these, or at the very least choose whichever you feel compelled to, as they are all fundamentally the same.

99% (this is arbitrary in place of an exact statistically derived number) of LED available on the market today come originate from the Guangdong Province of China. Of these the vast majority are also manufactured on the exact same production line, by the exact same individuals, working for the exact same company with the exact same suicide nets and the exact same employee dormitories.

The variation in selection is only due to two factors.
#1. The illusion of competition. Identical products packaged differently to present a facade promoting the consumer to think they are actually making a choice.
#2. Actual competing companies that in fact have the same suppliers.

When looking at the "options" you will no doubt now notice more pronounced similarities between them. "Gee, this LED cluster looks just like that one" or "Gee, this case is exactly the same as that one, only a different color". It is suggested that these similarities are dismissed by consumers as limitations in the technology itself, and that they accept as fact that little variation is even possible in practice. I won't get into the mechanics of creating markets, planned obsolescence and flooded market merchandising strategies but instead skip ahead to the point.

So, the Guangdong Province is producing practically every LED you see on the market today and they are doing so to such a level that the majority of LED "Hobbyist Horticultural" lighting is merely a shuffling around of the exact same modules in a a different wrapping.

The only two current manufacturers of anything other than this standard configuration are
http://kessil.com/
and
http://www.lumigrow.com/
and here is what I feel are some of the pros and cons of the two, while abstaining from a specific breakdown under the pretense that these selections are superior and also due to the abundant clinical data and analysis results on them both, available readily online.

First off is the pedigree of the Lumigrow. It has been utilized, funded and developed under contract as well as directly working with NASA.
The newest Pro Series as well as it's predecessors employ an adjustable spectrum, allowing you to use the same light from veg to bloom. They also have a "White only" light option, which allows you to see the plants in 'natural" lighting conditions, as opposed to only photosynthetically utilized spectrum (see: Headaches).
Keep in mind that I have not even had my hands on their most recent offering [The Pro Series and SamrtPAR software], so their technology has had only one way to go.
The biggest con I see with the Lumigrows is their unified construction, as opposed to a more modular one such as:

The Kessil.
The one singular most advantageous element I see to the Kessil over the Lumigrow is the fact that it takes several smaller units to equal one Lumigrow in color spectrum, power and coverage. Now, due to the inverse-square law governing the principles of light, LEDs have a distinct disadvantage to HIDs in one critical area = penetration. You have a point source, and the drop off of effectiveness comes way too soon, once the light leaves the unit. The gives the Kessil an advantage as you can put the light right where you need it, as opposed to one central point source. Now still, you need to mix and match to create the right spectrum but the other big advantage to modularity is that if one unit malfunctions, you still have the remaining units in place. LEDs will burn out over time. With the Lumigrow, multiple burnt LEDs will eventually call for a complete replacement of the unit, whereas the Kessils can be replaced in parts of the whole lighting system.

Given this modularity advantage to the Kessil I would still go with the Lumigrow.

Firstly I find Kessils marketing videos questionable. I don't doubt their product, I just think they are trying to explain an unnecessary, abstract principle to the general public and in doing so fail miserably. In fact their explanation is patently incorrect, but it is trying to make people think they know what is going on.

My second mark against the Kessil is their spurious "Lens design". Again, they are appealing to a misconception of the properties of light that is commensurate with how many people "feel" light works, but it's wrong, and extraneous.

Thirdly, where Lumigrow has a strong commercial horticultural presence, Kessil is marketed directly and only to the "Hobbyist" market.

To sum it up; while still considering the modular advantages of the Kessil and the possibilities of upgrading elements of lighting system individually as opposed to replacing the new unit, this concern is theoretical and only comes after exhaustive introspection to find advantages of one over the other. It is more likely that by the time either unit is going to need to be replaced, the current technology will have far surpassed the broken/wore out unit you'd have in your hand.

I would not hesitate to go with the new Lumigro Pro series LED units and alternatively, depending where you are located internationally, you may also look into Lumigrows Lumibulbs, as well.

Thanks for taking the time and writing this amazing article, Wow these LED lights are just amazing, im so glad you provided me with all this info. Would you go with the LumiGrow Pro 650 or 325?

While I agree with OG on much that he says, I wouldn't go with a Lumigrow unless you have a light mover. LED just doesn't spread as a point source well and will only grow well what is directly under it and a few inches to the sides. I think that multiple small units are the way to go....or if using an LED packed small panel use the light mover.

I've personally gone with multiple Kessils, the spectral spinner and a few small diy units. I'm not necesarily saying buy Kessil, although I think they are great lights especially if you have some white light to mix with it - fluorescent, LED, whatever - and the build quality is unbeatable.

Although most of the units made in China are very similar for reasons as stated, the clients of the manufacturers may spec quite different components. I would give the A51 fixture the thumbs up. He publishes right up front (not all the con artist cr*p that most manufacturers do!) what LEDs he is using (Cree!), reasonable recommendation for grow area and umols (which is really the best way to compare fixtures). There are quite a few good documented grows and people seem happy all the way through flower..not just veg and then disappear.

Thanks Everyone for all the great info . Helps out so much. Ill have to try these leds after my first grow

I've been growing with leds since they first came out, started with a 600, then moved to a 250. The 600 grew the nicest plants by far, but I didn't need that much for personal use. That and I never felt comfortable leaving the house with that hot ass bulb running.

Started with a pro source 90w. Grew about a 1/2 g/w, not quite enough. Made a great veg light for 3 plus years now though. Got my moneys worth.
Moved to a glh spectra 240w. Grew some great stuff close to a g/w for 3 plus years. Some popcorn due to penetration issues. Still got my money's worth.

This time around got tired of spending top dollar. Got a led off alibaba 350w for $311. I can see penetration is up which is the main thing I was looking for. Sill a ways from being able to say its a great light but its doing a better job then my spectra so far.

I'm glad I saved all that money this time around. I have a good, solid light, that can last me through the next tech advance. These companies that are charging top dollar really need to start showing what their product can do, instead of relying on customers to do it for them.

IMHO led tech has reached a point where the more affordable options are more than worth it. If you have lots of money then buy the best, but if your a little more concerned about where your money's goes, I think there are lots of good,affordable options.

Yeah i do not like the fact that Im going to leave my 600w and Ballast on when im gone, ugh. Thats why I want to switch to LED. I just bought my Ballast and HPS I wish I would have waited ugh always in a rush for no reason.

Jcmjrt is correct about the point source distribution issue, and also reminded me of one the the drawbacks of Kessil that I forgot to mention, no "white only option". The spinner does in fact help with distribution quite a bit and if you must use a moving device, these are some of the few that I think would be effective.
If you look at the commercial applications of the Lumigrows, they are placed rather close together. There's that damn inverse square principle again..haha.
While I would recommend adding a light mover to ANY grow, simply for penetration, I would not recommend adding one to distribute light over an extended area. Just for example sake, (1) 1kw + a mover over 5x5 unit area ≠ (2) 500w over a 5x10 unit area.
I really, really like the Kessils and definitely have some strong, proprietary advantages over any other available light but personally I would just prefer the Lumigrow.
If your space is appropriate for 1 600w, you could really use either Pro Series model, but the 325 sold as the 600w "replacement". As with all LED "replacements", you will likely NOT get the same production from the 325 as you would from a 600w HID, but, studies have shown that you will get proportionally more yield/watt. In addition, your savings are multiplied exponentially when you consider how much less power it takes to maintain environmental factors, and how much less ventilation ducting, etc. you need when you are running LED.

With the LEDs, it's all about savings and efficiency.

Good luck, GF!

I wouldn't stress over the 600. I think it's good your starting with that light. It will show you what a kick ass light can do, give you something to compare leds to. I'd recommend a high temp shutoff in the room just for some added peace of mind.

Multiple fixtures are important, but it depends on your space. In a 3 x 2 space multiple fixtures would be silly. In a 4 x 2 and larger, then yes it will become very important.

OG Thanks so much, question, Im getting a 5x5 Gorrilla Tent, So ur saying i should get a light mover + Lumigrow 325 ? I guess ill try to sell my Ballast and Light + reflector and invest into one of those Lumigrow

Thanks

positivity said:

I wouldn't stress over the 600. I think it's good your starting with that light. It will show you what a kick ass light can do, give you something to compare leds to. I'd recommend a high temp shutoff in the room just for some added peace of mind.

Multiple fixtures are important, but it depends on your space. In a 3 x 2 space multiple fixtures would be silly. In a 4 x 2 and larger, then yes it will become very important.

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Where can i get a [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"high temp shutoff" [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Sorry new to this . I have a powersun ballast digital 600w + Eye Hortilux 600w.

Thanks
[/FONT]

I'm new to posting so I don't know how to post links yet. I think it's made by cap....google cap high temp shutoff
One 325 in a 5 x 5 on a light mover. Sounds super efficient but might lead to some airy stuff? If it were me I'd get two pro 325 for that space

okay thanks positivity

Quick Question say it hits 90 degrees and turns off when it cools back down will it turn back on? or just stays off?