[Bababooey]

The bill that's waiting to be signed by Quinn prohibits political contributions by mmj organizations/businesses.
I dont think there's anything in the bill about plant limits for the cultivation centers.
Patients can be issued up to 2.5 oz every two weeks, so maybe the regulators will have cultivation centers limited in size to the number of patients they provide for?

[Julian]

Originally Posted by Bababooey

The bill that's waiting to be signed by Quinn prohibits political contributions by mmj organizations/businesses.

I think it goes quite further than that actually, have taken the week off (finally) from it, but, think goes to any/every party with any interest, in any organization, but, that means very little in the end. (On the flip side, I could think of 10 ways right off the top of my head to get around that one, and, direct compensation (monetary) not the only aspect. I do like that section, but make no mistake, will play, I believe, a role, unquestionably, in approvals, specifically a district 1 cultivation center. I would be truly shocked if any legitimate applicant actually got that one.

I dont think there's anything in the bill about plant limits for the cultivation centers.

There are no mention of any plant limits, nor do I believe there will be.(In Dept. of AG follow ups).

Patients can be issued up to 2.5 oz every two weeks, so maybe the regulators will have cultivation centers limited in size to the number of patients they provide for?

I don't think there is any sound way to do so, especially, as I think you mentioned, due to a lag time in building up the patient count (statewide), combined with dispensary locations (and don't forget any gaps in timeline).

There are countless little gaps currently in the bill as written. (Countless, affecting all aspects from production through sale, operators to patient).

[Bababooey]

Greasing the palm is a time honored tradition in this state, but the local politicos may want to keep their hands out of anything to do with mmj, else they may run afoul of the feds two favorite targets: politicians and drugs.
Still, as you said, there's a lot to be sorted out in the coming months.

With only 22 cultivation centers, it's hard to imagine any of them could make do with plant counts less than 1000, if you include clones and veggers.

Does anyone think that greenhouses would be better for a cultivation center than a warehouse? Less stealthy, but it might be less costly utility wise...

[Julian]

Originally Posted by Bababooey

Greasing the palm is a time honored tradition in this state, but the local politicos may want to keep their hands out of anything to do with mmj, else they may run afoul of the feds two favorite targets: politicians and drugs.
Still, as you said, there's a lot to be sorted out in the coming months.

I'm not necessarily referring to monetary compensation, in fact, I think it will be humorous in the sense everyone and their brother trying to call in their favors. No money, just overdue favors being touched on, etc, and, I dont think it's going to occur on a local level. (Has to be power to reach the approval )

All of course just speculation....but when one of the largest metros in the country is only assigned one....well....

Does anyone think that greenhouses would be better for a cultivation center than a warehouse? Less stealthy, but it might be less costly utility wise...

I, personally, would love an out ..(or an in )....

Or both .......

There are substantial costs that come with either from ground up though (license prep, security requirements, etc), so out would not necessarily be a significant savings/reduction of capital...(prep, supplies, greenhouses, security, processing area(s)....(trim, dry, cure, storage, etc)..remember.....can't just pack it up and haul it off somewhere ...security and tracking has to follow chop to sale....

Prep, security, numbers, greenhouses, supplies, staff, processing area(s), all with approved security measures in place, and tracked from "seed to sale"...so....

Not a fraction as cheap as I have heard some discussing as of late.....(There are, of course, 100 more variables and strategies which can come into play regarding the above though, which can make it quite a bit easier monetarily....)

[ILL-IN-GROWER]

It would almost seem like getting the app for a CC in the middle of nowhere might be better off than scoring one in the metro areas. I didn't remember reading them, but assuming there are no restrictions on CC's selling to any dispensary, it might be much more cost effective to set up shop down south with a massive greenhouse/dry barn and ship it up north. Survival of the dankest, and let the dispensarys worry about being in that prime location...

I can see it now... A corridor of glass houses growing (or trying to grow) high grade dope, all up and down 55 and 57

[Bababooey]

Right, it's not so much what you know, but who you know, as the saying goes.

I understand that greenhouses might not represent much if any cost savings over traditional warehouse grows, particularly if you have to construct the greenhouses from the ground up. And even greenhouses need supplemental lighting, when it's cloudy or during the winter, when the days are short, and need heating during the winter as well. So if you really wanted to use the sun as your only lighting source, probably outdoors is the only way to go, but then you're limited in your growing season, have to deal with exposure to elements, etc. IL is like 90% arable farmland, and I could see a CC being a farm with a few acres of trees. 100% unstealthy though, but maybe the most cost-efficient solution to setting up a cultivation center...

[Julian]

Originally Posted by Bababooey

I understand that greenhouses might not represent much if any cost savings over traditional warehouse grows, particularly if you have to construct the greenhouses from the ground up. And even greenhouses need supplemental lighting, when it's cloudy or during the winter, when the days are short, and need heating during the winter as well. So if you really wanted to use the sun as your only lighting source, probably outdoors is the only way to go, but then you're limited in your growing season, have to deal with exposure to elements, etc. IL is like 90% arable farmland, and I could see a CC being a farm with a few acres of trees. 100% unstealthy though, but maybe the most cost-efficient solution to setting a cultivation center...

Of course, the above presents endless options and possibilities.

"The "locked and enclosed" issue may indeed come into play, making any outdoor operation greenhouse(s) right off the bat.

I think this touches upon such a wide array of variables, how ould we possibly begin to address.

One thing to touch upon is a sizable out/GH op will require, as above, processing facilities, and again, not simply a matter of dry/trim, but also cure/storage, again, which must be monitored/tracked, subject to all dictated security protocol established. Indoor facility a perpetual scenario, a cumulative annual volume, but much more manageable regarding processing, whereas, out, of course, processing becomes a much more significant issue as addressing a far (far ) greater volume.

There are literally endless ways to analyze both options, cost of course being the primary, but not the only factor.

One thing that comes into play that I have been addressing quite a bit lately with many is the wide variety of design and execution strategies (in or out, in vs. out) that fall/can fall within certain budgets and limitations. (More options than most realize on the surface.)

Most overlook numerous options. For starters, staggered deps, and we could go from there.

The options are endless.....an exciting time to be certain .

[Bababooey]

Good points.
I would think any significant outdoor cultivation center would have to have secure fencing around the crops, including barb or razor wire, to keep out rippers and snoops.
Processing areas are necessary and need to be adequate for the op. I recall reading one of the large warehouse grow threads on this site, 100k+ watts, and the grower said during harvest and trim, with a grow that size, you will never keep in all the smell, no matter what sort of odor control you use.
Which I think is not true, I think it's possible to control the smell even if you're chopping a hundred stinky 6 ft trees, but maybe his odor control system couldn't handle it...

[Julian]

Originally Posted by Bababooey

Good points.
I would think any significant outdoor cultivation center would have to have secure fencing around the crops, including barb or razor wire, to keep out rippers and snoops.

In addition to "locked and enclosed", hence greenhouses (enclosed). Such automatically changes budget, and, area known for summers with extremely high humidity some years. (GH professionals will begin to address ventilation, cooling, and, every sentence pushing a budget further, when open would overcome many issues to begin with, even if only the ability to have raised sides, especially in situations with immense open space on all sides of property.

(There have been times when I have sat, and surveyed sites. Just sat.......and watched......the airflow.....the leaves of each and every plant top to bottom....for hours... Sites with expansive open space typically have wind(s) which push right through from top to bottom.....sometimes for hours on end ...(the entire garden, every plant, top to bottom)...No one can tell me there is enclosed ventilation that can provide that....

I'd prefer an out myself for many reasons.....we'll see.

Processing areas are necessary and need to be adequate for the op. I recall reading one of the large warehouse grow threads on this site, 100k+ watts, and the grower said during harvest and trim, with a grow that size, you will never keep in all the smell, no matter what sort of odor control you use.
Which I think is not true, I think it's possible to control the smell even if you're chopping a hundred stinky 6 ft trees, but maybe his odor control system couldn't handle it...

Short and sweet: I just worked on something here everything was in line, everything seemingly fine, but, long story short, complaints from nearby led to a discussion in which "I think it's just seeping through the walls" (concrete) was the comment/analysis (I could see no other explanation actually....was sealed, enclosed, filtered.....logic would state filtering wasn't of course adequate, but inside certainly seemed such. Outside?.....nnnnnnah.....(For drying only....pre cut was fine)

I think the issue(s) with a larger outdoor commercial, is, as previous, not only processing space, but, again, dry, cure and storage. Drying racks/space for 1,000-2,000 units? ....storage for the same? (longer term), all falling within security guidelines?. No, this calls for more than a simple metal outbuilding....(But, again, carries various creative (but approved) options.

I had several conversations with various investors and groups this week which basically addressed the number of hours to be spent in future on phone addressing operational and compliance issues with appropriate authority(ies)

Strain dependent also, as always...

[Bababooey]

I hope the Dept of Agriculture, when they release their requirements for cultivation centers, would consider a fenced in outdoor farm a locked and enclosed facility.
Although outdoor plants, even well grown ones, tend to be more larfy/leafy than well-grown indoor ones.

That's interesting that you've run into the same odor control issues with the chop/dry.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=230838
Apparently this was a big warehouse grow in the Bronx that didn't have any odor problems whatsoever, according to neighbors. But maybe they didn't do the trim/dry at this location, although with a grow that size, transporting plants for processing off site seems like an extra security risk. But maybe thats what you do if even concrete walls can't keep the smell of sour diesel in...