magnet experiment

trichrider · Apr 21, 2013

clones, pretty much consistent in size...
organic media.

the magnets are taped to the sides of the containers in different configurations.

five controls, all numbered 1.
#2 is 2 magnets on opposite sides, with north and south poles pointing inward.
#3 is 2 magnets opposite sides, with both south poles inward.
#4 is 2 magnets, opposite sides, both north poles inward.
#5 is 4 magnets, all 4 north poles inward.
#6 is 4 magnets, all 4 south poles inward.
#7 has the bottom lined with magnets with both north and south orienting upwards from below.

same environment for all, same feeding and watering.

my original opinion was that there would be no benefit and possibly detriment.

vegged for a month under 400 mh.

control group...

with magnets...

2 weeks later...

controls...

magnets...

flipped them into flower this week.
unfortunately i ran out of premium lighting and they are flowering under a 4bulb bank of t5s.

since i had biased opinion of the results, i added another experiment for which more significant indications were expected.

trichrider · Apr 21, 2013

a simple earth battery with coil.

consists of... a length of wire with both ends denuded and a galvanized nail.
the coil in the wire creates a magnetic field within the coil.
one end of wire inserted deep into media, other end in contact with galvanized nail, also embedded into media.
through galvanic action a minute charge flows in the wire and the coils magnify the inherent magnetic flux.

Earth battery

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An Earth battery is a pair of electrodes made of two dissimilar metals, such as iron and copper, which are buried in the soil or immersed in the sea. Earth batteries act as water activated batteries and if the plates are sufficiently far apart, they can tap telluric currents. Earth batteries are sometimes referred to as Telluric power sources and Telluric generators.

http://archtoolbox.com/materials-systems/metals/55-galvanicaction.html

very interesting indications...

trichrider · Apr 21, 2013

coils...

applied.

stealthy21 · Apr 21, 2013

this is some wild stuff. looks to me that the control group were better looking in the end. but with these earth batteries ive never even heard of them. i hope that things go well as i am interested.

City Twin · Apr 21, 2013

This should be interesting. Thanx trich.

BullDogUK · Apr 24, 2013

Hey Trich, real interesting idea! :tiphat:

Do you have an actual theory you're going by or just seeing what a magnetic field does to the plants?

It doesn't look to be having much impact but we'd get a much better view if you made some measurements and posted them up. If you like I'd be happy to run a few stat tests on them to see if anything is going on.

There's a few variables that you can be measuring that spring to mind: Plant height/growth rate, number of branches, rate of maturation (how many days from start to finish) and harvest weight. You might also consider some more generalized things like number of unhealthy leaves and what not I suppose though not sure how relevant that would be as it'd be difficult to pin it down to anything in particular. Also, are these earth coils all going to be of the same sort of strength? Fucking magnets, how do they work?

trichrider · Apr 26, 2013

BullDogUK said:
Hey Trich, real interesting idea!

Do you have an actual theory you're going by or just seeing what a magnetic field does to the plants?

It doesn't look to be having much impact but we'd get a much better view if you made some measurements and posted them up. If you like I'd be happy to run a few stat tests on them to see if anything is going on.

There's a few variables that you can be measuring that spring to mind: Plant height/growth rate, number of branches, rate of maturation (how many days from start to finish) and harvest weight. You might also consider some more generalized things like number of unhealthy leaves and what not I suppose though not sure how relevant that would be as it'd be difficult to pin it down to anything in particular. Also, are these earth coils all going to be of the same sort of strength? Fucking magnets, how do they work?

exactly!
the magnets show little diversity from the controls. will measure a few parameters today and post tonight.
i'm getting some farout results from the coils though...

...Earth batteries, though, consist of conductive plates from different locations in the electropotential series, buried in the ground so that the soil acts as the electrolyte in a voltaic cell. As such, the device acts as a rechargeable battery. Operating only as electrolytic devices, the devices were not continuously reliable owing to drought condition. These devices were used by early experimenters as energy sources for telegraphy. However, in the process of installing long telegraph wires, engineers discovered that there were electrical potential differences between most pairs of telegraph stations, resulting from natural electrical currents (called telluric currents) flowing through the ground. Some early experimenters did recognise that these currents were, in fact, partly responsible for extending the earth batteries' high outputs and long lifetimes. Later, experimenters would utilize these currents alone and, in these systems, the plates became polarized...
http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Earth_battery

Magnetic Field of Coil

The magnetic field produced by an electric current in a coil of wire can be visualized as the superposition of the magnetic fields of the current loops which make it up. The fields of the individual current loops add inside the coil to produce a strong and fairly uniform magnetic field. A tightly wound coil is called a solenoid.

...allowing ionic alignment easing electron transport is my theory, thanx for looking in.
pics at 11:00

Jbomber79 · Apr 26, 2013

kinda like the bracelets idea right? I had a kidney rupture in highschool (sporting accident) and they didn't do surgery. Used ace bandages and wrapped kidney area with magnets..true story

trichrider · Apr 27, 2013

Jbomber79 said:
kinda like the bracelets idea right? I had a kidney rupture in highschool (sporting accident) and they didn't do surgery. Used ace bandages and wrapped kidney area with magnets..true story

something like that...true story.
thanks man. i know magnets have been used for healing...

the magnet experiment...

control group:
#1, 22", 16 nodes
#1, 21", 18 nodes
#1, 25", 18 nodes
#1, 24", 17 nodes
#1, 23", 16 nodes

average height 23"

magnet group:
#2, 20", 19 nodes
#3, 27", 18 nodes
#4, 23", 19 nodes
#5, 24", 18 nodes
#6, 24", 19 nodes
#7, 22", 16 nodes

average height 23.33"

pics in my album....it's late.

not a statistical significance...

this here is what the coils have produced.

coils applied after third week.

top 2 fans from normal runs of white widow and sour diesel, bottom 2 are fans of same runs with coils applied.
both instances coaxed sativa properties from these hybrids that were nonexistent or recessive in all prior runs.

no conclusions...

BullDogUK · Apr 27, 2013

Hey Trich, are those the results of the initial experiment you did with bar magnets? There certainly seems to be something going on and that switch from Indica to Sativa phenos is pretty damn interesting.

I had this running through my mind again and had a few thoughts I wanna put out there.

so 1) Magnetism is an effect of electron spin alignment, which is where the link between electricity and magnetism comes in. As proteins involved in the active uptake of nutrients often use an electrochemical gradient, I can actually see magnets having some affect here (though I've no idea what the effect would be).

2) What sort of nutrients are you using? It might be worth investigating if magnets affect nutrient uptake. This gives you another set of controls to be using (i.e. magnets + neuts, magnets w/o neuts, neuts w/o magnets).

3) As this is going to be occurring in your growth medium, have you considered wrapping the coils around the pots? I imagine this would create a magnetic field throughout the media rather than part of the plant's stem. Again this gives some interesting variations - Is there a difference between an earth battery magnet and an electromagnet? Is there a difference between an electromagnet powered by DC and one powered by AC?

trichrider · Apr 27, 2013

hey bulldog.
no, the bar magnets are not showing significant differences from control...
#1 was close as i was thinking it might help with electron transport or CEC...
#2 nutrients are organic meals, only exogenous nutrients come from molasses and fish hydrosolate.
#3 yeah, have given it some thought, but it wouldn't be an earth battery then...
the difference between electricity and magnetism? it's all spun.

the coils create a magnetic field, there is no magnet. the earth battery works by galvanic action (chemical), whereas the electromagnet needs a power source and a piece of iron...the coils around the plant stem makes the plant the magnet...if that makes sense.

as far as the difference between AC and DC electromagnets??? ...the strength?

still investigating...stay tuned for a word from our sponsor.

BullDogUK · Apr 27, 2013

trichrider said:
the coils create a magnetic field, there is no magnet. the earth battery works by galvanic action (chemical), whereas the electromagnet needs a power source and a piece of iron...the coils around the plant stem makes the plant the magnet...if that makes sense.

My understanding was that any current passing through a coil creates a magnetic field? You're setting up a field at the base of the plant, extending maybe a little into the soil. As your diagram shows, the current flowing through the coil creates a field within the coil, extending out the top and bottom and around the coil. My thinking was, if you wrap the coil around the pots instead, this magnetic field would be generated within the soil where the nutrients and roots are actually located.

trichrider said:
as far as the difference between AC and DC electromagnets??? ...the strength?

Just a thought; if you have a DC current powering an electromagnet, the field generated is constant whereas an AC current creates a field that is constantly flipping poles. We use this technique a lot in the lab to force molecules to cross cell membranes and other such things.

trichrider · Apr 27, 2013

BullDogUK said:
Just a thought; if you have a DC current powering an electromagnet, the field generated is constant whereas an AC current creates a field that is constantly flipping poles. We use this technique a lot in the lab to force molecules to cross cell membranes and other such things.

my understanding also.
field follows law of inverse ratio. distance reduces strength.
i wanted the field as close as possible.
the magnet experiment was to expose the media and roots to the field.

still i have no idea if the coil even has a field other than the strange results of the application. i have no way of measuring...and cannot state that galvanic production of minute electrical charge is occurring. yet, something has morphed those phenotypes and it wan't my good looks. :biggrin:

BullDogUK · Apr 27, 2013

trichrider said:
field follows law of inverse ratio. distance reduces strength.

Bah yeah I didn't think about that! :laughing:

Perhaps you could try using two controls? One with no magnetic field and one with a powered coil? That way you can definitively say whether a bona-fide field is having an effect or not.

trichrider · Apr 28, 2013

ancillary interests...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URL6VrGEqWQ

electric water.

DrFever · Apr 28, 2013

Good job trich i wonder if you purchased a car signal light bulb and ran wires to pos n neg if it would light up and sticking the other wires in the ground then soil would be electrically charged this is where i think that plants could absorb nutrients better as molecules and ions
would be vibrating in this field creating heat also which is a plus plus warm root zone = faster better growth

c-ray · Apr 28, 2013

trichrider said:
something like that...true story.
thanks man. i know magnets have been used for healing...

the magnet experiment...

control group:
#1, 22", 16 nodes
#1, 21", 18 nodes
#1, 25", 18 nodes
#1, 24", 17 nodes
#1, 23", 16 nodes

average height 23"

magnet group:
#2, 20", 19 nodes
#3, 27", 18 nodes
#4, 23", 19 nodes
#5, 24", 18 nodes
#6, 24", 19 nodes
#7, 22", 16 nodes

average height 23.33"

pics in my album....it's late.

not a statistical significance...

this here is what the coils have produced.

coils applied after third week.

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=45264&pictureid=1060602&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]

top 2 fans from normal runs of white widow and sour diesel, bottom 2 are fans of same runs with coils applied.
both instances coaxed sativa properties from these hybrids that were nonexistent or recessive in all prior runs.

no conclusions...

thanks for the update

I see the magnet plants have on average 7% more nodes (18.16 vs 17).. is their mineral uptake 7% faster / more efficient and will they mature 7% faster?

what are the dry weights of roots and shoots of control vs. treated, as well as the stem diameters? dried flower yield might offer some correlations toward this..

imho ultimately these experiments should be conducted under the sun, because in theory there should be much less variation in light intensity at various heights on the plants (inverse square law), so all parts of the plants will receive more or less equal light..

are we sure that the earth battery does not need to be physically connected into the actual soil of the earth?

BullDogUK · Apr 28, 2013

c-ray said:
are we sure that the earth battery does not need to be physically connected into the actual soil of the earth?

I think the nail and knife are providing the connection

DrFever · May 5, 2013

Either Way more nodes is evident that something is working right and eventually be a bigger better yielding plant

BullDogUK · May 5, 2013

Could just be down to genetics though, that's why it's awesome that Trich is compiling photographic data and stuffs

magnet experiment

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