[ozzieAI]

I have never found Neem to be effective at all; your probably better off not using it.

what brand of neem oil did you use?

in all cases of neem oil not being effective i have been able to identify it has hydrophobic neem oil which has had most of the active ingredients removed...PURE neem oil is the only way to go...

[Scottish Research]

Originally Posted by ozzieAI

what brand of neem oil did you use?

in all cases of neem oil not being effective i have been able to identify it has hydrophobic neem oil which has had most of the active ingredients removed...PURE neem oil is the only way to go...

Well, I should have known that. Thanks!


R.Fortune

[Monkdawg840]

Where do u get yours and what brand are you using Ozzie?

[Hmong]

Originally Posted by VerdantGreen

cool thanks. i'll look into it some more. if you are getting the results with it then thats cool. i'm not sure that a plant root could take up an emulsified neem oil droplet tbh and how it could be systemic when its not soluble but i will try to stay open minded.

VG

The trick with the RIGHT emulsifier is that the drops get so small that the Azadirachtin bekommes more soluble.
I use a spezial emulsifier on castor oil basis

Just for the record:

Neem is simply systemic because azadirachtin works trough the plant in a genetical harmful way since larva feeding on treated plant matter wont be able to pass the lava stage, dont mature and die. so if you keep the level of azadirachtin in your plant constant, the effect will be present as well. plants of course metabolize the azadirachtin over a couple of days so it won't be in there forever as you might have this in mind as a systemic effect of an insectizide. Even Imid has a half life of ~150 days in soil so it will also be not in there and work forever.
a systemic effect is every eradicating effect that is induced through the plant after applying the insektizide. Its also a delayed effekt but its also active much longer, its just a matter of which chemical used, the conditions and plantsize (metabolism)
the other effect is a contact killer which is just poision you drop on bugs/plants. It has an immediate effect but only as long the applied solution is present. if your e.g pyrethrine solution has evaporated from the plants 1 hour after application the resolved poision will also be gone. thats why contact insectizides like phyrethrine dont have a harvest barrier.

So that says to me that neem is just tha BOMB
long term effect + safe use until day chopp chopp since you are not an alien cockroach or lets say dont plan to pupate

to have the best results from neem use you need to have a plan and know some dos and donts depending on which media youre in.

• get the right emulsifier before you use as a drench, dont blame neem if you fuck up plants by applying without any knowledge.
  
  
• ph your drench if you are in a hydro media (no micro life)
  
  
• also DO NOT add neem cake or seed meals to this mediums. This will lead to fungual developement, but not the good ones.
  
  
• Neem is good for plants though it's been a plant too before and will therefore also provide nutrient elements, proteins, carbonhydrates and whatever else. The solid products of course more than the oil but anyway you can make a use of that by soil application.
  Why?
  no need to explain basic soil biology and chemistry here i hope.
  
  
• AVOID to spray neem if possible. In my expericence neem DOES block stomata and suffocates plants in some way more or less. My ones never looked good after a treatment, which is quite rough because I spray rather wash them from below & above. The next day the leafes indeed look like they have some layer on them and feel grubby. they also curl downwards. So of you do a spray, also wash them with rainwater on the next day.
  the idea of a spay app is more to wash of critters as good as possible, rather than killing them by any chemistry in some way. chemistry will happen as recently as a couple of days further. this is why they always suggest continuing foilar apps, like every 3 days or every week for at least 3 weeks. BUT if you also soildrench why should you longer stun your plants with foilar apps?
  So I recommend a foilar if necessary also in combination with a drench
  
• As long as you use the right amount of emulsifier as well you presumably can not overdose Neem Oil in a drench. Of couse I mean a rational dose, dont blame me after pouring liters in there just to make a point.
  cake/seed meal dont matter anyway as their dose is limited by the mix you choose (drainage, water holding whatever).
  

this are some country lores based on experiences I made battling RAs since 1 year, making better progress since I have learned about Neem.
Nothing scientific except some numbers i dropped!!!


I want to thank ozzie for this thread. I finally found confirmation for some articles I#ve not been sure yet.
The Neem stuff MUST become common knowledge.
It frightens me what most folks, myself inluded constantly threw on their holy of holies to battle some ridiciolous bugs.
like for EVERYTHING else mother nature has a someway deal.
It is necessary to teach people that, so they start using their brains and do a little resarch rather than just went straight knocking at Bayer's and get their shit. Some to get one thinking:
if their goal is money and they get that by us constantly buying their NEWEST stuff, do they in the end really have interessest in a permanent clue? of course not and thats why their stuff is never 100% effective. After using it a few seasons and breeding resistant pests you must get their newest arsenal anyway.
in this context it becomes really ridiciolous that those elements dare to say that capitalism is what aliments us.
mother earth is what aliments us and nothing else, but by continiously raping the old lady, we make her a evil bitch who will settle a score with us sooner or later.
I am a student of enviornmental engineering and since I started my education which also went hand in hand with me start growing plants, I've became much more aware of enviornment, politics and just everthing what is going on around. I see lots of bad shit happening associated with modern agricultere and agricultural companies. I am specializing in enviornmental iusses caused by commercial agriculture. There are so much different issiues combined caused with pestizide use, fertilization, deforestation, GM technology, that I lost track.


Our duty espacially as cannabis growers (for me doing it, is political protest since its by far not legal here)
is to go the path of recreation an life not exploitation and sickness.
I have nothing against profit but I do have a lot against the stupid ways of making it. I kid of feel that the task of my generation is to figure out how to deal with the mess some greedy old men left us behind.

So everybody start making yourself a better future by reconsider your behavior. Neem for example is an isectizide made from trees and their seed, so its necessary to grow lots of those trees if making it a profitable commercial use that can compete with petrol chems. In just that moment we would have significantly reduced the issue of fossil fuel emissions. It is so rediciolous, thos trees would grow fast, would get really big and old and could even grow areas with little precipitation. If you dont believe me just do a wiki for niem tree.
There are over 100 different so far partly unknown chemical compounds in neem. So its the same as with cannaboniods.
Stupid people dont understand the potential in such mysteries and smart greedy people dont want anyone to find out, so having greedy people controlling stupid people suits their needs quite fine i guess.



So dont be stupid and scared, go think a little greener. NEEM's tha Bomb!!!

[ozzieAI]

Where do u get yours and what brand are you using Ozzie?

fromhere: https://www.batphone.com.au/products/...y-1-litre.html

i am downunder so if you aren't look for any brand that is 100%...avoid any 70% + 30% inert

[ozzieAI]

nice post Hmong..just couple of points i will picked upon:

also DO NOT add neem cake or seed meals to this mediums. This will lead to fungual developement, but not the good ones.

i use coco coir and do add neem cake but ensure that it is buried under the top layer, this stops the fungal growth from what i have seen. it also stops FG and RA and ismuch cheaper and easier to use than neem oil. i also use neem cake in the bottom layer to stop bug using the drain holes.

AVOID to spray neem if possible. In my expericence neem DOES block stomata and suffocates plants in some way more or less. My ones never looked good after a treatment, which is quite rough because I spray rather wash them from below & above. The next day the leafes indeed look like they have some layer on them and feel grubby. they also curl downwards. So of you do a spray, also wash them with rainwater on the next day.
the idea of a spay app is more to wash of critters as good as possible, rather than killing them by any chemistry in some way. chemistry will happen as recently as a couple of days further. this is why they always suggest continuing foilar apps, like every 3 days or every week for at least 3 weeks. BUT if you also soildrench why should you longer stun your plants with foilar apps?
So I recommend a foilar if necessary also in combination with a drench

i spray neem oil and have never had the reactions described above, the main reason for spraying is to prevent mould which is very common here. for foliar i use 2 - 3ml/litre.

[pekelo44]

it smells like the great outdoors but infused with flowers it makes smoking a bit less pleasant but not too much it's kind of a cover-up from smoking flowers cause smoking flowers have that sweet aroma as well as smoke aroma but infused with neem it just smells like an ordinary plant not GANJA. I was not pleased but nor was I displeased because smoking a fattie in the creeks in the city near a hiking trail where there are bandits lurking around aimlessly I guess the neem was a deterrent from the wicked thievery from which I was hiding in my favorite spot needless to say as well as some wild blackberry picking. So in the end it was all good.

[ozzieAI]

peke how are you using the neem?

[Hmong]

@ ozzie: thanks for the input. I only have my decent own experience with it. I guess there are many things I still make wrong. Of course Neem Foilar is good to prevent e.g PM but this should not be a problem indoors. I used 5ml/l + Emulsifier so this might just be to much Oil and causing the clauck I described.

i use coco coir and do add neem cake but ensure that it is buried under the top layer, this stops the fungal growth from what i have seen.

interesting. do you also introduce a microheard than?
Fungual developement in coco after mixing it with organic matter is very common.
I saw this happen when no ACT was used to introduce aerobic bakteria.
I guess its something like white mold that will grow.


One question about the pest preventative soil drenches. how much Emulsion should I throw in a 3,5l coco/ pot? battling RA's the last weeks I always flushed the pods with a few liters of emulsion each or even dunked the whole Plant in a phyrethine+neem mix for up to 1hr. So I dont have any experience with some type of preventative soil application of Neem. my girls are recovering atm and I started to feed them again, so I am looking for a way to put neem into the pods without stressing them again or lets say have to skip feeding again. Can I just pour 1 cup of it into the crown once a week like I do it with ACT? would that be enough? there will be no runoff of course.

I just got em back to a healthy colour after 5 weeks of fight. RAs are still not a 100% eradicated since I did not dump all infested Plants. So a preventative Neem soil application until flip is what I am looking for asap.



I hate em RAs, I have had them since I had started 1 year ago. My plants always looked like shit thus far and I just thought, I suck at growing. But since I discovered ICmag more and more issuses disappear, thank you all for that

[ozzieAI]

Of course Neem Foilar is good to prevent e.g PM but this should not be a problem indoors.

unfortunately i get mould indoors and out...climate control without air con is a bitch

do you also introduce a microheard than?

not anymore...but when i was organic growing i would and never seemed to have any issues

my standard drenching method to deal directly with pests is this: place pot in shallow saucer and pour the neem mix over medium preferably with a shower spray head till you get a decent amount of runoff. allow pot to sit in the runoff for 15 -20 minutes then remove, empty tray and you are done. i do this once a week if pests are present. to get rid of RA i used 12ml/l then i introduce neem cake and they have not returned...

i have never had plants stress due to using neem but i have stress caused by phyrethin. just keep in mind neem increases the efficiency of phyrethin so you need less for it to be effective.

Can I just pour 1 cup of it into the crown once a week like I do it with ACT? would that be enough? there will be no runoff of course.

no...from my experience you need to fully drench the medium

So a preventative Neem soil application until flip is what I am looking for asap.

neem cake is the best preventative i have ever used, add when potting plants and forget...top dress and a little around the drain holes...

in my current grow i forgot to add neem to the coco and i soon had a clouds of FG flyers in my tent...2 drenches as described above and top dressing (buried) with neem cake and they are goneski...