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Preventing Pests Promotes Pristine Plants

ozzieAI

Well-known member
Veteran
Having been a lurker here and other forums for many years...all the way back to the OG days…it's about time I make a contribution.

With the mass of information available to growers these days I find it hard to make many worth while contributions and really enjoy the diversity of views, techniques and general growing styles. However there is ONE area I don't see any information on and is something that has really improved my outcomes. I have grown for many years to supply myself and close friends (at times) with a clean organic herb.

For a bit of back ground info I have a small flouro grow where I veg indoors and once the plants hit the lights they go outside to flower…very basic. I have been using this style now for several years and have had to deal with a few constant companions in this endeavour. These companions include fungus gnats, spider mites and symphilids for the indoor environment and caterpillars, grasshoppers and mold outdoors. I have used several techniques to minimise the impacts but trying to maintain an organic regime meant that all out chemical war was not an option for me.

I have used neem oil effectively for years as a foliar spray and it does work well keeping the pests down to manageable levels. Every time I miss a spray then the pests return quite quickly. I got sick at the end of last year for a few weeks and my clone stock got hit badly with all three pests: fungus gnats, spider mites and syphilis. It was a sad sight, webs between the branches and brown rotting root balls. I was at my wits end to save at least one plant and hit the net to see what help I could find. Rather than go through the ins and outs of the journey of discovery I will get straight to the point.

Neem oil is SYSTEMIC which means that once watered to the plants instead of spraying it on, the roots take up the Neem and distribute it through out the plant. At a rate of 5mls/litre once a week I have no problems with bugs…none. As long as you up the amount of water you feed to the plant to compensate for growth bugs will avoid your plants. Now to be clear I have used this for the last 12 months and it has worked for me using a 50/50 coco coir/organic soil mix. It has worked both indoors and outdoors and the only time I have pests is when I miss a feed for 2 weeks or so.

Not only is the Neem working a protective agent it is also an excellent root conditioner and I have never had plants look so good. A friend has started using Neem recently and commented on how he had strong bright white roots bursting out of his drainage holes within a few days of applying the Neem. I have seen insects on my plants that are sick and basically just sitting there immobile. This time of year the grasshoppers have hatched and normally will shred the plants leaves and the caterpillars are eating the buds so they rot and die. However not this year, whilst I do get some damage, the bug does have to ingest some the damage is minimal. Mostly bugs just stay away...

The upside for me here is that it is easy, very effective and reduces the amount I need to grow for myself since my plants now not only survive but prosper. This is a great relief to know this is completely organic and has no negative affect on the plant or me. I hope that this is able to help those to battle the pests that people experience and evidenced by the shear number of pest thread here and elsewhere. I have no idea what effects Neem may have in hydro systems but for any soil/coco coir grows this will be a benefit to the plants and the grower.

Very interested to hear any feedback…

Now that I can edit my original post I have defined that 5ml/litre is a better dosage rate as this is a more consistent with dealing with pests.
 
Last edited:

ozzieAI

Well-known member
Veteran
Any special trick to mixing the water and oil before applying?

sorry should have mentioned to use garden neem as it should have emulsifier mixed with it. plain neem can be used but add a small bit of dish soap the allow the neem to mix with the water. I just shake well in a screw top container.
 

yerboyblue

Member
Tell neem oil as a solution to the guys on the root aphid thread, myself included. Great for everything else tho.
 

ozzieAI

Well-known member
Veteran
Tell neem oil as a solution to the guys on the root aphid thread, myself included. Great for everything else tho.

never had root aphids...sound bad if neem won't fix em, just remember that neem isn't an instant kill. bugs will still be present but they won't be active and will slowly starve to death or be unable to molt...once the plant as taken up the neem and maintains a minimum concentration then aphids shouldn't return.

what ratio are people applying? for me 5mls/litre is as strong as i have ever needed to go
 

yerboyblue

Member
never had root aphids...sound bad if neem won't fix em, just remember that neem isn't an instant kill. bugs will still be present but they won't be active and will slowly starve to death or be unable to molt...once the plant as taken up the neem and maintains a minimum concentration then aphids shouldn't return.

what ratio are people applying? for me 5mls/litre is as strong as i have ever needed to go

Ratios are kind of hard to determine, the different brands have different amounts. I use a spray called natural guard neem-py. it is neem oil and pyrethrins combined, mixes great even in cold water. usually one application is good for even bad spidermite populations. doesn't work for root aphids tho.
 

yerboyblue

Member
the other major thing, is really making sure everything gets coated with neem, and pyrethrum. I wouldn't run one without the other honestly, they both are very non toxic to humans and plants, and effective. I run my hand over each branch and leaf while spraying liberally, making sure every underside and top of the leaves are coated. Time consuming, but effective.
 

ozzieAI

Well-known member
Veteran
the other major thing, is really making sure everything gets coated with neem, and pyrethrum. I wouldn't run one without the other honestly, they both are very non toxic to humans and plants, and effective. I run my hand over each branch and leaf while spraying liberally, making sure every underside and top of the leaves are coated. Time consuming, but effective.

pyrethrum has been my friend in the past and always keep some in hand if i really need the hit something on the head instantly. regular watering with neem once a week has seen my crop pest free now for months so the need just hasn't been there.

FYI: But neem oil is also a systemic insecticide. That means you can pour it on the soil (not pure neem oil of course, you use a dilution or extract) and the plants absorb it. They take it up into their tissue, and it works from the inside. A leaf hopper may take a couple of bites, but that's it.

However, this does not work for all insect species. The neem ingredients accumulate in the tissues deeper inside the plant. The phloem, the outermost layer, contains hardly any. A tiny aphid feeds from the phloem, it can not penetrate deep enough to get a dose of neem. But any leaf hoppers, grass hoppers or similar chomping insects will be incapacitated quickly.


and extract i found here: http://www.discoverneem.com/neem-oil-insecticide.html

that explains why neem may not be effective for aphids in a systemic manner but physical contact between oil and aphid should 'in theory' still work...
 

yerboyblue

Member
pyrethrum has been my friend in the past and always keep some in hand if i really need the hit something on the head instantly. regular watering with neem once a week has seen my crop pest free now for months so the need just hasn't been there.

FYI: But neem oil is also a systemic insecticide. That means you can pour it on the soil (not pure neem oil of course, you use a dilution or extract) and the plants absorb it. They take it up into their tissue, and it works from the inside. A leaf hopper may take a couple of bites, but that's it.

However, this does not work for all insect species. The neem ingredients accumulate in the tissues deeper inside the plant. The phloem, the outermost layer, contains hardly any. A tiny aphid feeds from the phloem, it can not penetrate deep enough to get a dose of neem. But any leaf hoppers, grass hoppers or similar chomping insects will be incapacitated quickly.


and extract i found here: http://www.discoverneem.com/neem-oil-insecticide.html

that explains why neem may not be effective for aphids in a systemic manner but physical contact between oil and aphid should 'in theory' still work...

Ya, it definitely will kill some on contact. But not enough to be effective in the long run for root aphids. They can hide easily in soil.
As far as anything above soil, neem seems really effective. People south of my region speak of neem resistant spidermites and other mites like broad mites, they call the borg. I don't know if this is really what is going on, maybe they didn't apply thoroughly enough and frequently enough, but I couldn't say one way or the other from the stories.
I would definitely agree with you on using it as a preventative, even as a spray as well as a drench, in low doses. I would quit using it a few weeks into flower tho, as in order to not effect the final quality.
 

ozzieAI

Well-known member
Veteran
So do you apply it directly to chancre sores? Or just rub it all over so it goes systemic?

i add 5mls/litre and water into the roots. i tend to wait till my pots are light before watering and apply about 15% water to soil ie if i have a 10 litre pot will apply 1.5 litres of water as a minimum. this usually gives a small amount of runoff that sits in the tray and is soaked back up by the plant within a few hours or so, i never let plants sit in water for more than a day.
 
I love my forbid in clone/early veg, RA's are the real killer though lost a lot of weight to them last year. Imid seems to be the only reliable defense along with a few other chems i can't remember
 

lost in a sea

Lifer
Veteran
i've sprayed rose essential oils on plants with infestations of fungi and insects and it worked a treat..

most plant essential oils have been selected into the plant because they prevent insects and molds, almost all are anti septic, but a great many are also anti bacterial, anti fungal and anti viral,, nature selected for smelly roses and eucalyptus trees that stink but humans just dont get it lol..
 

Neo 420

Active member
Veteran
No one here ever tried neem meal and crab meal in their mixes?

The strategy I use is tedious but I worry way less now about PM, spider mites etc..
Twice a week foilars of neem oil/aloe vera (fresh)/Si
If I do ever see a flyer or unwanted insect, I add half cup total (all fresh) thyme/lavender/rosemary (sometime just lavender/rosemary)

I can miss a spray or two and still not have any issues. Prior to this regiment I caught it all....
This is not to say it is foolproof but it working for me so far.. ( recipe actually is from CC)
 

cyat

Active member
Veteran
neem has got rid of root aphids for me... gone

got to emulsify tho.... with some kinda blender

was buying tons of imid ... no comparison

thanks to cc as well!`
 

ozzieAI

Well-known member
Veteran
neem has got rid of root aphids for me... gone

got to emulsify tho.... with some kinda blender

was buying tons of imid ... no comparison

thanks to cc as well!`

good to see that neem worked for you, do you use it regularly or when problems arise?

The strategy I use is tedious but I worry way less now about PM, spider mites etc..
Twice a week foilars of neem oil/aloe vera (fresh)/Si
If I do ever see a flyer or unwanted insect, I add half cup total (all fresh) thyme/lavender/rosemary (sometime just lavender/rosemary)

I can miss a spray or two and still not have any issues. Prior to this regiment I caught it all....
This is not to say it is foolproof but it working for me so far.. ( recipe actually is from CC)


since i started using neem as a soil drench i never have to spray for bugs....ever

thanks for your experiences and input guys...
 

Hydro-Soil

Active member
Veteran
I'm just hoping that the reaction I get from azamax/azatrol isn't the same as straight neem. Somehow I'm guessing it's going to be sorta the same... probably not as bad.

The effects of azamax/azatrol, when used during (and even before) flower, whether sprayed or systemic (doesn't matter), is absolutely abhorrent to my system.

It bio-accumulates and causes increasing muscle tension, digestive issues, random nausea and a few other things. I'm positive there are thousands of people out there eating Rx their doctors are giving them for symptoms of this.

Anyone else have that and not have an issue with straight neem?

Stay Safe! :blowbubbles:
 
So simply drench the fuck outta my roots with a nicely mixed neem solution?? definitely trying it this year fuck wasting 10k worth of soil for RA fears
 

ozzieAI

Well-known member
Veteran
So simply drench the fuck outta my roots with a nicely mixed neem solution??

yep...once a week with 3mls/litre if no bugs are present and 5mls/litre if bugs are present or the risk is high of infestation

Anyone else have that and not have an issue with straight neem?

many years ago before i went organic i had several issues that may/may not have been the additives/sprays i used in my grow that i haven't had since going all natural.
 

yerboyblue

Member
So simply drench the fuck outta my roots with a nicely mixed neem solution?? definitely trying it this year fuck wasting 10k worth of soil for RA fears

I would also use other, harsher treatments in between crops so any pesticides have time to break down. I would also recommend using pyrethrums with the neem solution. They go hand in hand. Pyrethrums have never hurt my plants, I use a product called Rip Tide, at 2.5 to 5ml per gallon of water.
 
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