[habeeb]

had a test sent in for examine. used 8A/8B in R/O water ( 5ppm )

I noticed it's very very close to lucas' info on NPK of canna:
canna coco 8A/8B : 121(n)-42(p)-60(k)-24(Mg)



my question is, I know canna says they chelate the micro, but should iron be showing up that low? or is it the chelation process when being tested???

[dizzlekush]

Awesome!!! been wondering why people who are interested in using preformulated nutes with incomplete guaranteed analysis haven't done this exact testing. Deionized distilled water would be best, distilled water is pretty dang good and can be bought almost anywhere, R/O water is o.k. but it probably has enough contaminant to make micronutrient readings less accurate. e.g. results show more aluminum than manganese, more fluoride than iron etc.


Some interesting finds.

They stick to an almost perfect 3:1 Ca:Mg ratio (K would be ~1.66).
I guess coco has sufficient micronutrients? because this mix has a shockingly small amount of all micros compared to macros. 0.03ppm Mn when P is at 40ppm?
Im praying 99% of the Na Cl F and Al came from your water otherwise they are using some low low grade salts.
37:1 NO3:NH4 ratio (will definately cause medium pH to rise over time)

I just cant get over those Mn levels,
13:1 Fe:Mn
4:1 Zn:Mn
2:1 Cu:Mn

that really isn't a good micronutrient profile, either there was inaccuracies in the sampling (poor mixing procedures by canna, or imperfect mixing when samples where taken by you or the lab tech), inaccuracies in the test itself, or coco provides almost all micronutrient requirements. Otherwise plants would be seriously unhappy with that micronutrient profile, the macros look pretty good AFAIK, im not great with properly fertigating coco. i use peat myself.

[Greeco]

Originally Posted by habeeb

had a test sent in for examine. used 8A/8B in R/O water ( 5ppm )

I noticed it's very very close to lucas' info on NPK of canna:
canna coco 8A/8B : 121(n)-42(p)-60(k)-24(Mg)

View Image

my question is, I know canna says they chelate the micro, but should iron be showing up that low? or is it the chelation process when being tested???

Wow awesome test. Thanks for sending that in and sharing the info! I should have some extra cash here pretty soon and plan on getting a lot of stuff sent ro labs for testing. Especially leaf and medium samples so I can get all my strains dialed in. Ifyou dont mind me asking, how expensive was that test?

[Greeco]

Hmm. The medium ph seems oddly low too. I was suprised to see how much calcium is in the medium. It looks like you don't need to conpensate Ca at all. A hydro formulation would probably work better then a coco nutrient.

[GDK]

So what does this mean? That @ 8ml pr gal of RO, canna coco a+b should be ideal? Or lacking in micros, but sufficient in NPK ratios? Im an chemistry idiot!

Stay Safe

[ChaosCatalunya]

For years I read online a lot about RO water and the advantages, so I spoke to the people at Canna and General Hydroponics about it, at length, face to face.

Both told me the same thing, "Our nutrients are specifically formulated for growing with tap water" Mr GH [a great guy] said that all you were really doing with RO is taking out the Cal and Mag, then buying a bottle of Cal Mag [at great expense] to add it back in.

After a lot of reading up and some chatting, it seems that in the USA there are significant areas with groundwater contamination, heavy metals, sky high EC etc, that mean RO is needed, but that in Europe and many other places it is not.

Canna too, are good people IMO, genuine Cannabis lovers with real scientific qualifications and research behind their work, been using their stuff since it became available in the UK, never had a bad batch or the slightest problem. Awesome calendars too.

Habeeb's test results are interesting, and coco is not a straightforward Hydroponic medium due to the cation exchange, did you have the test done out of interest, or due to some issues ?

[GDK]

I still dont get it lol..

Stay Safe

You aren't using your canna coco a/b right. It says right on their site and on the bottle that you should be using tap water. If you use ro water and don't add back some brand of cal/mag how do you expect to get back what you took out? And most cal/mag brands include micro nutrients, cal, mag, a little nitrogen, and iron. What lab is that test from? It just looks like a spreadsheet to me that anyone can make.

[habeeb]

Originally Posted by dizzlekush

Awesome!!! been wondering why people who are interested in using preformulated nutes with incomplete guaranteed analysis haven't done this exact testing. Deionized distilled water would be best, distilled water is pretty dang good and can be bought almost anywhere, R/O water is o.k. but it probably has enough contaminant to make micronutrient readings less accurate. e.g. results show more aluminum than manganese, more fluoride than iron etc.


Some interesting finds.

They stick to an almost perfect 3:1 Ca:Mg ratio (K would be ~1.66).
I guess coco has sufficient micronutrients? because this mix has a shockingly small amount of all micros compared to macros. 0.03ppm Mn when P is at 40ppm?
Im praying 99% of the Na Cl F and Al came from your water otherwise they are using some low low grade salts.
37:1 NO3:NH4 ratio (will definately cause medium pH to rise over time)

I just cant get over those Mn levels,
13:1 Fe:Mn
4:1 Zn:Mn
2:1 Cu:Mn

that really isn't a good micronutrient profile, either there was inaccuracies in the sampling (poor mixing procedures by canna, or imperfect mixing when samples where taken by you or the lab tech), inaccuracies in the test itself, or coco provides almost all micronutrient requirements. Otherwise plants would be seriously unhappy with that micronutrient profile, the macros look pretty good AFAIK, im not great with properly fertigating coco. i use peat myself.

yes, I should have used other water, but I guess I did not see that much contaminant as a problem beforehand..

I need to check with lab if chelated has anything to do with tests, as they chelate with fulvic I believe..

yes your right about nitrate and pH rise.. I am not sure how people tend to think there medium pH could drop, let alone with high alkalinity water.....

Originally Posted by Greeco

Wow awesome test. Thanks for sending that in and sharing the info! I should have some extra cash here pretty soon and plan on getting a lot of stuff sent ro labs for testing. Especially leaf and medium samples so I can get all my strains dialed in. Ifyou dont mind me asking, how expensive was that test?

$40 including shipping costs, $35 for test.

Originally Posted by Greeco

Hmm. The medium ph seems oddly low too. I was suprised to see how much calcium is in the medium. It looks like you don't need to conpensate Ca at all. A hydro formulation would probably work better then a coco nutrient.

I'm hoping you mean the water pH? it's what happens with low alkalinity.. well zero, but not much worry, from what we understand, zero alkalinty means your pH is what the medium pH is, coupled with rising pH from nitrate.. I still add some pH up I will not lie, but I don't zero in on a number

I agree, Ca looks very high, and interesting they want you to add tap ( Ca/Mg ) for more Ca..

hydro formulas work no doubt, but I think they are on to something even we don't understand yet.. I talked to spurr recently, and even he said without a doubt after testing coco, he said adding a high k is not good....

Originally Posted by ChaosCatalunya

For years I read online a lot about RO water and the advantages, so I spoke to the people at Canna and General Hydroponics about it, at length, face to face.

Both told me the same thing, "Our nutrients are specifically formulated for growing with tap water" Mr GH [a great guy] said that all you were really doing with RO is taking out the Cal and Mag, then buying a bottle of Cal Mag [at great expense] to add it back in.

After a lot of reading up and some chatting, it seems that in the USA there are significant areas with groundwater contamination, heavy metals, sky high EC etc, that mean RO is needed, but that in Europe and many other places it is not.

Canna too, are good people IMO, genuine Cannabis lovers with real scientific qualifications and research behind their work, been using their stuff since it became available in the UK, never had a bad batch or the slightest problem. Awesome calendars too.

Habeeb's test results are interesting, and coco is not a straightforward Hydroponic medium due to the cation exchange, did you have the test done out of interest, or due to some issues ?

test was done to see what exactly was in the bottle, as numbers are only a guaranteed number, so I wanted to just see as I was curious as I have never done this before..

well I guess companies, even canna can say what they like, but to say or formulate a nutrient after tap water is ridiculous.. is is absurd for this vary reason.. everyone's water is different! so how can people achieve success when working with different numbers.. I understand though, to ask everyone to move to R/O would lose alot of people, so I get it, but I shake my head to say the formulated for tap, as that is saying they formulated it for 50 ppm / 100 ppm / 200 ppm / 400 ppm water... absurd!

great calendars, but I don't think they are put in out in the USA..

Originally Posted by swisscheese

You aren't using your canna coco a/b right. It says right on their site and on the bottle that you should be using tap water. If you use ro water and don't add back some brand of cal/mag how do you expect to get back what you took out? And most cal/mag brands include micro nutrients, cal, mag, a little nitrogen, and iron. What lab is that test from? It just looks like a spreadsheet to me that anyone can make.

and the police say to go the speed limit, do you? well sometimes you lack the understanding why I operate why I do.. but you don't know why as you didn't ask..

well I guess I need to add back that sodium and other crap in my water too huh.. as you might see, using a formula with nitrate, high alkalinity levels are not desirable

I use epsom salt, works fine

yes, I made up a spreadsheet and punched in some numbers I thought looked good........

[canna woop!]

im no expert, the numbers looked fine to me. chelated usually refers to the type of nutrient you're looking at. the details of which chelated nutrients may be found in the .msds file most decent companies have available online.