[BubbaBear]

Originally Posted by Iffy

Hey BubbaBear,
I heard about Bud Factor X and why they use Chitosan I also get that too soon would definitely slow down bud 'growth'. Smaller but frostier buds.
- when do you think is the ideal time to use it?

Regards
Iffy

I'd wait till week 5 or 6 of a 10 week strain or when you feel the majority of the bulking is done right before ripening starts. Apply it about a hour before lights on, spray it weekly up till the last week use a upward spraying sprayer aim for the undersides of the leaves and branches with a light fine mist over the tops of the flowers.The last couple weeks skip misting your flowers and only hit the undersides of the leaves and branches or just do crown feedings if your scared to spray your flowers, its also great bennie food and can be added to teas. I know spraying your plants during flower is pretty frowned upon but chitosan is basically a antibiotic for the plant, I've read treated plants have a 85% less of a chance of getting Botrytis than untreated plants.

[Iffy]

Hi BubbaBear,
Thanks for that priceless bit of info.
What organic acid would you recommend dissolving the chitosan into? Gibb, Jas - acetic? And what strength solution?
Thanks again
Iffy

[Mikell]

Interesting, I wonder if it would have a similar effect on peppers.

[BubbaBear]

Originally Posted by Iffy

Hi BubbaBear,
Thanks for that priceless bit of info.
What organic acid would you recommend dissolving the chitosan into? Gibb, Jas - acetic? And what strength solution?
Thanks again
Iffy

I came in this thread looking for that info myself, I've only used Bud Factor X not pure chitosan. I believe if you use chitosan oligosaccharide lactate its 99% water soluble so it should mix right in, maybe add some fulvic acid and filter out the insolubles? I dont know hopefully someone that knows will pipe in, I'd love some info on using chitosan oligosaccaride lactate verses Bud Factor X.

[Only Ornamental]

Originally Posted by Iffy

...
What organic acid would you recommend dissolving the chitosan into? Gibb, Jas - acetic? And what strength solution?
...

The following only concerns you if you don't directly buy/use chitosan HCl, acetate, or lactate (they are directly water soluble).
Now, chitosan in its free form is basic (in water, pH goes up), uncharged, and therefore not soluble. You need the acid to protonate at least 50% of the amines. This is the case at roughly pH 6 and depending on the amount of chitosan used requires +/- 1% acetic acid in water. If the stuff doesn't dissolve properly, either add more acid or buy better quality .
Using 1% jasmonic or gibberellic acid will not work due their low solubility and KILL your plants too.

You can also use hydrochloric acid, lactic acid or nearly any other acid instead of acetic acid. Phosphoric acid works too but might increase viscosity and cause precipitations at high concentrations, same goes for sulfuric acid but not as pronounced... other organic acids would have to be tested because show different additional effects such as increased viscosity.

Concentration is somewhere between 50 and 2000 ppm depending on the use (soil drench, foliar, systemic resistance induction etc.) and quality (molecular weight, degree of acetylation, etc.).

[Only Ornamental]

Originally Posted by BubbaBear

maybe add some fulvic acid and filter out the insolubles?

Fulvic acid is an anionic polymer, chitosan a cationic. Mixing both, depending on chemical structure of both (which is usually not well known and my differ from batch to batch), may lead to full precipitation or gel formation. Both not very practical.
Whether or not this 'cross-linked' macromolecular complex retains the advantages of either or both partners remains to be seen (but I'd guess you're more likely to lose at least some of the activity).

[BubbaBear]

Originally Posted by Only Ornamental

Fulvic acid is an anionic polymer, chitosan a cationic. Mixing both, depending on chemical structure of both (which is usually not well known and my differ from batch to batch), may lead to full precipitation or gel formation. Both not very practical.
Whether or not this 'cross-linked' macromolecular complex retains the advantages of either or both partners remains to be seen (but I'd guess you're more likely to lose at least some of the activity).

Great info thanks for sharing. I was thinking the fulvic would help get the chitosan into the plant. Im not to well versed on what fulvic helps chelate and what it does not. Im going to order some chitosan oligo lactate, do you know what ppm l should apply it in the reservoir and as a foliar?

[BubbaBear]

[shaggyballs]

Originally Posted by BubbaBear

Great info thanks for sharing. I was thinking the fulvic would help get the chitosan into the plant. Im not to well versed on what fulvic helps chelate and what it does not. Im going to order some chitosan oligo lactate, do you know what ppm l should apply it in the reservoir and as a foliar?

Hey there BubbaBear

OO and I have spoke on the subject, he is very smart!

Chitosan is so versatile it can be used so many ways for so many different reasons, the stuff can be made into so many different forms.

So when OO says:

"Concentration is somewhere between 50 and 2000 ppm depending on the use (soil drench, foliar, systemic resistance induction etc.) and quality (molecular weight, degree of acetylation, etc.)."

He is not trying to be vague, he is telling you that at different PPM Chitosan has a different effect....Also all those other factors are just as important in determining the mode of action of the end product.

It is a crazy product, that is for sure.

Best wishes
shag

[Only Ornamental]

Originally Posted by BubbaBear

Great info thanks for sharing. I was thinking the fulvic would help get the chitosan into the plant. Im not to well versed on what fulvic helps chelate and what it does not. Im going to order some chitosan oligo lactate, do you know what ppm l should apply it in the reservoir and as a foliar?

You're welcome.
Last things first: For experiments (lab and field), up to 200 ppm for foliar and seedlings are used. For soil drench up to 2000 ppm, sometimes even more (but that's likely just wasted money). I'm not really into hydroponics: usually, concentrations of such 'additives' are closer to the foliar than the soil treatment. As you are going to use the oligosaccharide and not the polymer, you're main effect is induction of plant immunity: Go for the foliar application .

You don't really need chitosan IN the plant.
It just has to touch receptors on the outside of the plant cells to for example tell her: 'Hey, I'm a predatory animal feeding on your healthy leaves! You're all going do DIE *HAR-HAR-HAR*!' Whereupon the plant will activate its immunity and fight back.
Another effect is mechanical/physical protection (in case of higher molecular weights): Again, a film over the leaves does the trick, no resorption needed.

Besides:
- Fulvic acid is bigger than chitosan oligosaccharide
- Chitosan is positively charged: this is the preferred state for resorption/adsorption in plants, no need to add something
- Chitosan is too big to be resorbed, small oligos (di-/trimers) and monomers (glucosamine) may be resorbed but then are metabolised like sugars
- We still don't know how and why exactly fulvic acid is so beneficial in terms of nutrient uptake but it can also decrease bioavailability. Best not to fool around with it as long as you don't know what it does in that particular case .