Col 64 Private Co-Op?/Garden Group?

Hydro-Soil · Nov 27, 2012

In the spirit of colorado amendment 64, the question of private partnerships for growing comes to the discussion table.

Given the goal of staying under the fed min sentencing guidelines of 99 plants... we're looking at clubs of 16 members or less and a plant max of 96 plants.

Let's (as a growing community with a vast array of experience) take some time here and come up with realistic numbers and scenarios.

- What type of grow op will maximized the results for each person?
- How are yields transported with the under one ounce max? (Transport entire plant for harvest at owners house?)
- How do you structure equipment depreciatin, nute & electricity usage, hourly compensation and such into standard service fees?
- Possible contracts between a grower and their neighbor?
- Possible garden layout designs and room sizes/setups for a 96 plant operation. Starter op costs and scale up scenarios?
- Processing services and related issues?

The easier we make it for folks to set this up... the more neighborhoods will have adequate supplies of cannabis in the state. The more that have, the more info will be spread and the more will naturally become those that 'know' the truth about cannabis.

Shall we begin?

OVERGROW COLORADO!!

Stay Safe! :blowbubbles:

monsoon · Nov 27, 2012

It all sounds good until you consider that sales aren't a legality offered in this equation. Service fees and all of those other things constitute commerce, or "renumeration" as the law deems it. You can transfer (give) someone less tha an ounce under this law but if you are in anyway enriched by goods, services, or flat out $$$, it is no longer a gift and is considered outside this Amendment. Folks are mistaking that DA's are dropping ALL MJ cases but they are only dropping the small/1oz possession cases and not the SALES cases or cases against larger players.

For the record...the laws that have always been on the books regarding sales over 1 ounce and cultivation over 6 plants have not and will not change. How these laws are enforced and if they are widely used in the future against those who feel this amendment wiped out ALL penalties for growing/possession/sales is yet to be seen but they are still valid State statuates that are well in effect.

The sale of 1 ounce to 5 lbs. is a Class 5 felony punishable by a sentence of between 1-3 three years imprisonment and a fine of between $1000-$100,000

The cultivation of more than 6 but fewer than 30 plants is a Class 5 felony punishable by 1-3 years imprisonment as well as a fine between $1,000-$100,000.

The cultivation of 30 or more plants is a Class 4 felony punishable by 2-6 years imprisonment as well as a fine between $2,000-$500,000.

nobody knows what the mandates will be yet for LEO when they run across larger gardens but it will be interesting to see how they handle these supposed loopholes in the law and "collective" grows.

Hydro-Soil · Nov 27, 2012

monsoon said:
It all sounds good until you consider that sales aren't a legality offered in this equation. Service fees and all of those other things constitute commerce, or "renumeration" as the law deems it.

Sales? No sales.
Renumeration? Yes, for consultation fees, equipment depreciation, overhead costs. Nothing for the cannabis.

monsoon said:
You can transfer (give) someone less tha an ounce under this law but if you are in anyway enriched by goods, services, or flat out $$$, it is no longer a gift and is considered outside this Amendment.

This is does not enter in to what I'm talking about here. No one is 'giving' anyone 'anything'.

monsoon said:
Folks are mistaking that DA's are dropping ALL MJ cases but they are only dropping the small/1oz possession cases and not the SALES cases or cases against larger players.

Again... not relevant to this discussion.

monsoon said:
For the record...the laws that have always been on the books regarding sales over 1 ounce and cultivation over 6 plants have not and will not change. How these laws are enforced and if they are widely used in the future against those who feel this amendment wiped out ALL penalties for growing/possession/sales is yet to be seen but they are still valid State statuates that are well in effect.

And now... no longer apply to a person growing their own 6 plants, or (as this discussion is covering) housing them at a location that is tended by someone else.

monsoon said:
The sale of 1 ounce to 5 lbs. is a Class 5 felony punishable by a sentence of between 1-3 three years imprisonment and a fine of between $1000-$100,000

Again... you bring up sales?

monsoon said:
The cultivation of more than 6 but fewer than 30 plants is a Class 5 felony punishable by 1-3 years imprisonment as well as a fine between $1,000-$100,000.

The cultivation of 30 or more plants is a Class 4 felony punishable by 2-6 years imprisonment as well as a fine between $2,000-$500,000.

*sigh* Blah blah blah... Again, you're talking about commercial growing. This is not the subject.

monsoon said:
nobody knows what the mandates will be yet for LEO when they run across larger gardens but it will be interesting to see how they handle these supposed loopholes in the law and "collective" grows.

It'll be interesting indeed. In my county they won't even investigate if someone calls in a 'suspected' grow op. As long as you're well under 99 plants, it's really not worth the hassle for them. You show them paperwork that says 6 plants, with 30 of them behind you, and they just nod and say "ok" and walk away.

I'm looking for helpful information that people can use to help out their neighbors. Whatever that information is. Stuff folks can actively use to get started now, with the least number of legal concerns. Thanks.

Anyone else?

Stay Safe! :blowbubbles:

monsoon · Nov 28, 2012

Folks can help out their neighbors by simply giving them a bag.

No "club" needed.

Good luck :tiphat:

Hydro-Soil · Nov 28, 2012

monsoon said:
Folks can help out their neighbors by simply giving them a bag.

No "club" needed.

Good luck

Good point. I do see a lot of sharing on the horizon for sure.

Perhaps the term 'club' is inappropriate here? Dunno, that's why I started the thread.

I've just noticed that when folks have a clear set of choices/options laid out in front of them... they tend to actually do something. Right now there are at least a million adults over 21 in Colorado that are wondering what they should/could do.

So... what constructive thoughts are floating around out there? Plug them into this thread. You want to help, yes?

Stay Safe! :blowbubbles:

LubdaNugs · Nov 28, 2012

I think a good approach would be genetic sharing between individual growers. Imagine if you had 3 mother plants that you liked and several other friends with a variety of mother plants. You could stay legal in plant counts and still have access to a wide variety of strains.

OrganicOzarks · Nov 28, 2012

I think you are on the right track. The problem is some group will have to be the guinea pig.
Are you willing to test the waters?
If so I think you are headed in the right direction.
I can not see a jury of your peers convicting 16 people who like to garden together.
Community gardens have been around forever. This is nothing new.
Yours just might be a "community indoor garden."

Grow 1lb. trees each under a 1k of it's own. Should be enough for everyone. The electric bill could get pricey though.

Hydro-Soil · Nov 28, 2012

LubdaNugs said:
I think a good approach would be genetic sharing between individual growers. Imagine if you had 3 mother plants that you liked and several other friends with a variety of mother plants. You could stay legal in plant counts and still have access to a wide variety of strains.

Sharing? Meh... maybe not so much. At least not between gardens... until proper pest/issue management is universal and becomes a non-issue itself.

Yes, it would be great to be able to trade an ounce of this with the neighbor for an ounce of that. Right now, I can't find anything acceptable in the county... the quality is that bad. Definitely have to change that before considering 'trade', of end goods, as an acceptable way to have other genetics than running it yourself.

Someone offered me a hit off a bowl of dispensary bud last night. LOL Thanks but (*gack*) no thanks, bub. Truly nasty stuff in this area.

Ok... so let's change course a bit... who knows anything about equipment depreciation in regards to hydroponics?

Stay Safe! :blowbubbles:

Edit: Why does this seem like pulling teeth?

OrganicOzarks · Nov 28, 2012

Hydro-Soil said:
Sharing? Meh... maybe not so much. At least not between gardens... until proper pest/issue management is universal and becomes a non-issue itself.

Yes, it would be great to be able to trade an ounce of this with the neighbor for an ounce of that. Right now, I can't find anything acceptable in the county... the quality is that bad. Definitely have to change that before considering 'trade', of end goods, as an acceptable way to have other genetics than running it yourself.

Someone offered me a hit off a bowl of dispensary bud last night. LOL Thanks but (*gack*) no thanks, bub. Truly nasty stuff in this area.

Ok... so let's change course a bit... who knows anything about equipment depreciation in regards to hydroponics?

Stay Safe!
Edit: Why does this seem like pulling teeth?

Standard equipment can be depreciated out over 5 years. some things sooner. Being it is for agriculture you may be able to do it quicker. You need to speak with a tax attorney.

Hydro-Soil · Nov 30, 2012

So... you can't travel with a full ounce, or more.

This means that the owner of the plant that needs harvesting will have to transport the plant to their house for trimming. Growers will definitely have to look in to lockable transportation for small to 'large?' sized plants that are in full bloom. LOL
That right there doesn't sound like a lot of fun. Still... that's a whole sight better than making 16 trips to 'bring the harvest home', eh? LOL

Storage Unit complex owners... I can see people who own storage unit sites putting in power and equipment in a few units, enough to handle the plants for 16 people.

Any lawyers or paralegals want to take a crack at the contract authorizing someone else to tend their plants? Or the one absolving the grower of liabilities they shouldn't be harnessed with?

Stay Safe! :blowbubbles:

greenmatter · Nov 30, 2012

i actually think 64 produced more questions than answers

no offense meant to anyone , but the big question seems to be "how can i cash in on this? "

the lawyers and the politicians are gonna be busy with this shit for a while and what the feds are going to do seems like a coin toss at the moment

growers groups sound like a great idea, but there is going to be someone out there using it to hide behind ......... as usual ........ and screwing the rest of us in the process

at the end of the day we broke the back of the drug warriors, but i am counting on them thrashing around for a while before they finally give up and die .......... i do believe i will live to see it though :dance013:

frito bandito · Nov 30, 2012

would be cool if a citizen could get a power of attorney to give the collective the right to grow its 3 plants. or you could have a large facility with separate fenced off locked facilities, leasing them out to folks as a secure place to grow their stuff, with all the tools, soil, etc needed.

Hydro-Soil · Nov 30, 2012

Indeed...

I still can't believe it passed, and at the same time as similar happenings in another state. Wow.

You're right, folks are definitely going to be looking for ways to make money off of this. I'm just trying to help folks continue to do what they're doing... while being able to share the fruit of their knowledge in a safe way.

Teaching folks how to grow isn't going to solve anything. Only a limited number of people are going to have the drive and determination to do it... and most of those people don't have the time as they're usually too busy earning a living.

Interesting indeed...

Stay Safe! :blowbubbles:

Hydro-Soil · Nov 30, 2012

frito bandito said:
would be cool if a citizen could get a power of attorney to give the collective the right to grow its 3 plants.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Grower already has a garden in place.

Colorado resident over 21 signs paper authorizing them to care for their plants.

Their plants go in rotation, they pay consultation fees, their share of the electricity and cost of nutes. When their plants are ready to harvest... it gets delivered to them in a secured transport.
[Edit: Ok... so this isn't going to happen. Specifically verboten:
(3) Personal use of marijuana. NOTWITHSTANDING ANY OTHER PROVISION OF LAW, THE FOLLOWING ACTS ARE NOT UNLAWFUL AND SHALL NOT BE AN OFFENSE UNDER COLORADO LAW OR THE LAW OF ANY LOCALITY WITHIN COLORADO OR BE A BASIS FOR SEIZURE OR FORFEITURE OF ASSETS UNDER COLORADO LAW FOR PERSONS TWENTY-ONE YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER:
(b) POSSESSING, GROWING, PROCESSING, OR TRANSPORTING NO MORE THAN SIX MARIJUANA PLANTS, WITH THREE OR FEWER BEING MATURE, FLOWERING PLANTS, AND POSSESSION OF THE MARIJUANA PRODUCED BY THE PLANTS ON THE PREMISES WHERE THE PLANTS WERE GROWN, PROVIDED THAT THE GROWING TAKES PLACE IN AN ENCLOSED, LOCKED SPACE, IS NOT CONDUCTED OPENLY OR PUBLICLY, AND IS NOT MADE AVAILABLE FOR SALE.

So... that actually makes the "less than an ounce" shuffle the only amendment authorized way of transporting their cannabis from their plant to their house. Suckko!

frito bandito said:
or you could have a large facility with separate fenced off locked facilities, leasing them out to folks as a secure place to grow their stuff, with all the tools, soil, etc needed.

Yep... like I mentioned, the storage unit owners are the first ones I thought of for this type of stuff.

(Edit: Keep in mind... until something changes federally, you really won't want more than 16 people running a total of 96 plants. At 99 it becomes 'worthwhile' for the feds to step in and do the whole bust/rob and prosecution thing.)

Edit: This is almost out as well... since the harvest would have to stay at the location, minus the "Almost an ounce" that you'll be transporting.
Stay Safe! :blowbubbles:

Chunkypigs · Nov 30, 2012

I think it's fun to imagine 16 growers trying to decide on anything from nutes to pesticides or if you can get that far, how to harvest, dry , trim, cure...

the perfect legal 6 plant colorado garden is well documented here on IC and yields 15+ units.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=236262

maybe the club situation you describe could work if it was one person running the show like a caregiver and the other members gave up their signatures/growing rights in exchange for a share of the harvest. I think there would still be lots of disagreements leading to gunplay or civil suits.

the potential for diversion to non legal states will be too great in the beginning years of this.... every home could produce 6 to 60 pounds off 6 outdoor plants... trucking weed to the east coast from your state will be a treat compared to moving it from cali.

the next few years will be a free for all, go rent a house or three in the boonies before they are all taken :biggrin:

once the whole nation is legal I think the club thing might work but not until the price is down near the price of beer.

Hydro-Soil · Nov 30, 2012

Aye...

That's some serious units there...

Chunkypigs said:
maybe the club situation you describe could work if it was one person running the show like a caregiver and the other members gave up their signatures/growing rights in exchange for a share of the harvest. I think there would still be lots of disagreements leading to gunplay or civil suits.

Before re-reading that clause in the amendment... yes, that's definitely what I was thinking. With the clause being that all cannabis has to stay where it was 'grown' (Minus traveling bud, of course)... this "my plants in your garden" thing isn't going to fly.

So... a few outlets for those looking to make money

-Consultation Services for starting and running an indoor garden for someone, in -their- home.
-Growbox rentals. (You rent the box and grow yourself)
-Trimming Services

Where do seeds and clones fit into all this???

Stay Safe! :blowbubbles:

Tony Aroma · Dec 1, 2012

I hate to break it to you, but that 99 plant limit is cumulative in the eyes of the feds. That doctor couple in CA got a LONG mandatory sentence even though at any one time they made sure they had less than 99 plants. The feds added their plant totals over several years to come up with a number greater than 99.

village green · Dec 1, 2012

Tony Aroma said:
I hate to break it to you, but that 99 plant limit is cumulative in the eyes of the feds. That doctor couple in CA got a LONG mandatory sentence even though at any one time they made sure they had less than 99 plants. The feds added their plant totals over several years to come up with a number greater than 99.

Cue mass closing of ICMag accounts.......

Avinash.miles · Dec 1, 2012

^^never villagegreen....
if u want to really get the goods @ amendment 64 and whats going to happen, go to the organizations most responsible for making it happen, thats my advice.
DPA (drug policy alliance) is my #1 source....

Tony Aroma · Dec 2, 2012

village green said:
Cue mass closing of ICMag accounts.......

Of course the feds would only know about your past grows if you are a scrupulous, law-abiding citizen who keeps careful records. Otherwise how would they know what you grew last year? A bit of a Catch 22, where carefully following the laws of your state actually incriminates you in the eyes of the feds.

Maybe state-legal growers should adopt the first two rules of Fight Club.

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