i can now confirm that i have those new little smooth edge leaves starting on my monster clones and the plants i am trying to reveg are looking well enough to go again but still waiting for smooth leaves my guess would be in the next 3/4 days and well done brownthumb your a bit in front of me but am very excited !

[habeeb]

Originally Posted by bushed

Hey, from my experience a clone is a clone. Once rooted it will grow with the speed and vigor that is built into its genetic code (optimal level of nutes dependent of course). So the answer is no or not in my experience.

The reason why small shoots can grow so fast from a well established mother plant is its well established root system, something that the fresh clone does not have.

nailed





as for this, " because really, once you get your cloning technique dialed in, you can take the clones whenever"

poor advice, you never take clones in flower, the hormones have changed, thus you have a clone that needs to be "switched" back to vegging... don't be lazy and keep a mom, or a clone before flower, or if your super lazy, try to re-veg the plant if you liked it in flower..

[BrownThumb]

Originally Posted by habeeb

nailed

as for this, " because really, once you get your cloning technique dialed in, you can take the clones whenever"

poor advice, you never take clones in flower, the hormones have changed, thus you have a clone that needs to be "switched" back to vegging... don't be lazy and keep a mom, or a clone before flower, or if your super lazy, try to re-veg the plant if you liked it in flower..

Poor advice? Perhaps. I have heard everything you just said before, but have recently decided that conventional wisdom is just that, conventional. I agree that what you say here is what everyone else will say in general, however, I am not everyone else and have decided to exclusively take clones in flowering. Not for the sake of going against conventional wisdom, rather, for the end product. To each their own. I am all for people using critical thinking so they can hopefully make better educated decisions. I do not feel the need to comment one way or the other on the when or how someone other than myself takes their clones. I think people should develop their own methods from the information that's here using that critical thinking I was talking about. Am I going to tell you you're doing something wrong because I do it another way? I am sure you know the answer...

[Bigge]

The reason for not taking monster clones every time in flower...is the time to reveg...you can flip veg clones in one week after cloning....flower clones have to revert and take like 4 or more weeks before they get their bearings again to start vegetative growth. This is my experience with 5 or 6 strains..maybe someone knows a way to speed up the reveg?

Also...those saying a clone is a clone have never monster cropped....try it before applying your conventional wisdom. I get around the above time impact by monster cropping and rotate clones into the clone setup weekly and remove clones from clone setup at 8 weeks...this takes 8 week lead time on ready to veg teens....but once the lead time has past I have teens weekly....so I can pull reveged clones into veg each time I harvest.

yep sounds correct to me bigge, and imo,they have more vigorous growth than normal clones once they get up to speed !

Originally Posted by 8-bit

in your experiences are clones from monster cropped plants harder to root?

yes very hard to root I have a Jinn in 4 generation monster mom , here are a few good tips ..

don't cut clones before you flush ..two weeks before harvest cut your clones ...cut numbers because most will not make it ...
your going to watch them die and get over it .. if you want quality monster traits in the clones its going to happen ..

if your doing a scrog and your mother is in veg don't cut your clones when the mother is being stressed ...she should be in full flowering or late flowering is even better ...if your clones have a little bud on them pinch it off , it will not hurt the clone ..

I found puncher ring the main stem with a finishing nail gave me the best results .. here is a 4th Jinn monster mother ..

note not all the clones will turn out to be monster clones .. the better the mother the better the clones she cast ..


they do best 3 or 4 after generations ,so if your not getting good selection for monster work with the mother for 3 or 4 generations and you can tell if she is going to cast good monster clones ..

I am kind of new to this stuff as well so check this out and you well get a better idea of what a monster mother is and you will be on the right track ...

this monster mother has been ...stabbed ,pinched ,fimming , toped , super cropped ,and tied down ..

she is a 4th Jinn monster mother and a great example !

when I tie , I just wire the bucket and green ties ,, wait till her branches stand up 3-5 inches and push them down and make a out going ring around the bucket . keep doing that till she fills the screen...don't worry about the center area it will fill in fast enough ...

note the 1 inches stem ball from being stabbed ...

note the branch size of the mother's branches I cut to harvest her . I left very little branches .just enough to re veg ..in many ways when the inner branches are cut and harvested this lets light to the new veg making the veg go nuts and mass production takes over ...

the best monster mothers have that rat nest ball of mass shoots in the center of the plant growth.. you can see it in the far right pic ,I will flip these pics upright in a few .. I am sorry I have so many pics its crazy ...but .. monster mothers have different traits as well . this monster mother has branches with dozens of buds the full length of the branches .. making it a good quality smoke and less cola bud that's why she is in DWC now ..and LED 1200w

the real question is who would want a potent small size plant with 100 -150 branches with a mass number of bud sites pre branch ...?

and here is why you keep records of strains . here is a pic of this same mother in 4 weeks before she was harvested last generation ,
note the number of buds pre branch ...this well help some of to look for the traits that will give you good quality monster mothers .. I have the full life of this plant on record from seed to now ....

ya I know , no life of my own ...lol

but look at her last grow and then look at her now

hell ya .... monster traits locked in ...

taking her to DWC and 1200W LED should make her a queen zombie weed ...
and she started as a Belladonna ...

ya I know I am sick bastard ...lol

my girlfriend took a tiny hit from a roach and lost her cookies because her world was spinning out of control .. she has never done that again ... saves on weed ...lol

something you want to look for . is when I harvested her last ,I harvested just above that rat nest . that means when she dose take off next veg that rat nest becomes a mass of branches ...when she gets to the super cropping stage those branches run wild and the plant just goes nuts in growth of new branches ,I will wait a week or so and then super cropper her again and then tie down again forcing all those branches to make new growth again ...

[stoned-trout]

taking clones in flower is a last resort..if you do it before stretch and flowers start it aint as bad but you end up taking lower shitty stuff.. I like nice tops for my clones...some plants take forever to get growing again when clones taken in flower... my sourbubble hates revegging and cloning from flower plants..been there done that...yeehaw

Originally Posted by stoned-trout

taking clones in flower is a last resort..if you do it before stretch and flowers start it aint as bad but you end up taking lower shitty stuff.. I like nice tops for my clones...some plants take forever to get growing again when clones taken in flower... my sourbubble hates revegging and cloning from flower plants..been there done that...yeehaw

but your talking about a given strain ...

I am talking about the monster cropping traits and how to select for them no matter what strain .. and yes some strains do not like clones cut in flowering ..

in most cases monster cropping clones are cut in mid to late flowering , but not to say all are ...if I was cutting clones for just collecting strains yes I would cut in veg ..

monster clones often get their traits from selected mothers with those traits ...

and who is to say that depressed lower shit stuff is not the best monster clones ?

some of my clones cut in late flowering take a few months why my veg clones take days to a few weeks

I would say about 70% of the monster clones I find the best are cut in late flowering and do have some amount of bud still on them ...

there are differences in the two types of clones ..its what you do with them that makes the best out of the traits they have ...

in many ways the traits that look like rats nest are .. and the evolution of that rats nest subjected to LST can develop into a nice monster cropped mother ,one plant's rat nest is another's greatest quality when skill is add...

in over sight : the conditioning of generations no selected mothers are cast in way of traits to the clones as well as off spring

this is why I record clone generations it is simple cause and effects . you condition the mother it will in turn effect the clones every bit as much as selecting that given off spring pheno .....if we are to ask what makes the monster a monster .the answer must be our effect in their development ...

it is easy to see when you know what your looking for .. the 3rd generation pic of the mother has the traits I was selecting for ,yet the 4th generation mother takes it to the next level and I am willing to add the LST to help develop those traits ...


in fact I can make it more simple ...

if you want to keep a strain . keep the off spring that look just like every other off spring .. if you want to hunt for something different chase the pheno types , but the only problem with chasing pheno types is the selection you make my deselect the other hidden traits of a given strain base ..

[Adze]

Clones have the same genetic potential for vigor as the parent plant.

Originally Posted by Adze

Clones have the same genetic potential for vigor as the parent plant.

a cow is a cow . but conditioned traits are different then genetic traits if they were not , then collecting the different strains
would be total waste of time ...if cannabis was all the same the strains would all look the same and taste the same and smell the same .. genetics is a funny thing . we all human . but we are not the same .....

and if you were correct then there would be no reason to look for phenol types ...

I see it little different . each strain has given traits ..genetic as well as conditional traits and environmental traits ,as well as selected traits ..

when you look at a given strain and pick out one example your looking at what you can see and taste and smell . but each strain has a mix of hidden traits locked with in them ..thus the phenol type is a reflection of those hidden inner traits ...

we get a pack of seeds and I give you 5 out of 10 ,.. you get a phenol type more purple then the phenol type I get that's red ..your growing conditions are different then my grow conditions . thus the hidden traits react differently to your conditions then they do to mine ...

we both have the same strain .. but how were the seeds maid ,what conditions did the breeder of those seeds use ..?
how dose your growing skills different then mine ...?

there is no one answer to the question thus no one will be 100% right or wrong ..

besides ,not all seeds have the same given traits as the mother or father do ...the seeds could be a pheno type waiting to happen ..

I have seen this first hand . a pack of IBL seeds and one plant is nothing like the rest of the pack .. not a freak ,just a pheno type cast from one parent or the other or the reaction of mating two different strain bases ...

so it is my under standing that we can have the pheno type A or B or a less seen (A,B) or (B,A)...or C !