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Old 11-05-2012, 08:46 PM #1
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Silicic Acid...what kind?

Hey IC

I am trying to figure out what kind of silic acid is usable in growing plants. I know theres different kind of Si products available. Stuff like ProTek is widely used, but as i understand it only silicic acid is readily available to the plants. Last round i used a product from the Dutch company Aptus called Regulator(FaSilitor for the US users), which primarily contains silicic acid. Im sure most of you know about this product by now. It lived up to its promises and produced stronger, thicker and faster growth. Now Aptus is kinda pricey, even tho it is extremely concentrated.
Yesterday i was googling silicic acid, when i came across a few products made for human consumption. These products contain 100% colloidal silicic acid. Now Aptus doesnt reveal what kinda silicic acid their products contain, but wouldnt these health supplement bottles be the same? The instructions almost seem the same as Aptus, about being very careful about contaminating the contents of the bottle.

Heres a few links about silicic acid and plants, and some links to silicic acid for humans:

https://aob.oxfordjournals.org/content/100/7/1383.full

https://www.silicol.com/acid_facts.html

https://www.silicea.com/en/index.php

Reason why im starting this thread is, the Silicol available locally is alot cheaper than Aptus, and if its essentially the same it would be awesome. Please discuss..

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Old 11-05-2012, 08:59 PM #2
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might find this helpful;https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=246401
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:13 PM #3
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best/cheapest source for high grade a salicylic acid analogue is the pharmacy...

plain old aspirin...


with a solubility of 3mg/ml (20c), all you need to do is dissolve a 325mg pill in a half liter then decant the water/asa mixture away from the binders that dont dissolve.

then apply that to a res of 100 liters, or at a rate of 5ml/liter.




https://www.jipb.net/pubsoft/content/2/3510/x020578.pdf
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Abstract

Kiwifruit (Actinidia deiiciosa (A. Chev.) O. F. Liang et A. R. Ferguson cv. Bruno) was used toinvestigate the effects of acetylsalicylic acid (ASA, 1.0 mmol/L, pH 3.5) and ethylene (100 p.L/L) treat- ments on changes at endogenous salicylic acid (SA) levels and other senescence-related factors duringfruit ripening and softening at 20 “C. The level of endogenous SA in ripening fruits declined and a closerelationship was observed between the change at endogenous SA level and the rate of fruit ripening andsoftening. ASA treatment elevated SA level in the fruit, slowed down the increases in lipoxygenase (LOX)and allene oxide synthase (AOS) activities, decreased the OE production in the preclimacteric phase andthe early phase of ethylene climacteric rise, maintained the stability of cell membrane, inhibited ethylenebiosynthesis, postponed the onset of the ethylene climacteric, and delayed the process of fruit ripeningand softening. On the contrary, application of ethylene to ripening kiwifruit resulted at a lower SA level, anaccelerated increases in the activities of LOX and AOS and the rate of 0; production, an elevated relativeelectric conductivity and an advanced onset of ethylene climacteric, and a quicker fruit ripening andsoftening. It is suggested that the effects of ASA on ripening kiwifruit can be attributed to its ability to https://WWW.chineseplantsciencecom scavenge O; and/or to maintain stability of cell membrane



https://www.springerlink.com/content/k2182003n348814q/
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Abstract

The hypothesis that physiologically activeconcentrations of salicylic acid (SA) and itsderivatives can confer stress tolerance in plants wasevaluated using bean (Phaseolus vulgaris L.) andtomato (Lycopersicon esculentum L.). Plantsgrown from seeds imbibed in aqueous solutions (0.1--0.5 mM) of salicylic acid or acetyl salicylic acid(ASA) displayed enhanced tolerance to heat, chillingand drought stresses. Seedlings acquired similarstress tolerance when SA or ASA treatments wereapplied as soil drenches. The fact that seedimbibition with SA or ASA confers stress tolerance inplants is more consistent with a signaling role ofthese molecules, leading to the expression oftolerance rather than a direct effect. Induction ofmultiple stress tolerance in plants by exogenousapplication of SA and its derivatives may have asignificant practical application in agriculture,horticulture and forestry.
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:17 PM #4
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lol wow im stoned, silicon/silicic acid not salicylic acid.

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Old 11-05-2012, 10:27 PM #5
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This is my answer to some people who previously asked essentially the same thing:

Some companies try to pull a fast one on us. 'monosilicic acid' (a.k.a. orthosilicic acid) is just the form soluble Si takes when hydrated (dissolved in water) at acidic pH. At more alkaline pH (starting around 8.5 ) Si becomes ionized, but at pH <8 Si takes the form of monosilicic acid in solution, which is the form plants uptake Si, and then they convert it to SiO2. Its basically a fancy way of saying 'watered down silica' and allows for the company to list a higher % on the product than if they expressed the % in just Si, so the product appears to be more concentrated but it isn't. As pH increases above 8.5, the Si in solutions changes to ionized polysilicic acids, at 9.3-9.5 disilicic acid stabilizes, at pH below 4 non-ionic polysilicic acids form. But as long as you keep pH 4<8 more than 99% of your Si will be in the form of monosilicic acid.

silicate salts are highly alkaline. when added to solution they raise the solutions pH. As pH raises to greater than 8 (>8), the form that silica takes in water changes from non reactive, non-ionic monosilicic acid, to reactive, ionic polysilicic acids that react with other minerals (unsure of which ones) and precipitate out of solution, giving a cloudy appearance.

Basically at high pH (>8) silica changes forms to a form that can react with other minerals and precipitate out of solution. The best way to prevent this is to add your silicate salt first out of all nutrients, and then lower the pH (add acid) to levels that will insure that pH wont rise to >8 when adding your other nutrients

Sources:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...thzckDly6HokRw
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...6-nEb9uEqiNC9w
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:39 PM #6
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Thanks for the input guys..
Dizzle: Im still reading your reply and trying to understand...in short tho..will the health supplement type work as good as cannabis marketed products like Aptus?

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Old 11-06-2012, 03:38 AM #7
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Well... The aptus guy said he could drink their product... Don't do it, but it's safe... Well, maybe not the mo... Lol, almost word for word. But it gave me the same thought... Food grade sa. So no mo, which is part of their logic for why their product should be priced so high.
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Old 11-06-2012, 04:05 AM #8
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Old 11-06-2012, 04:48 AM #9
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Old 11-06-2012, 04:58 AM #10
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Aptus is way too overpriced, go with Dutch Master Silica. Use 1-2ml per gallon when you fertilize, you can also use it as a foliar spray which is the approved "organic" use. At around $25 a liter, one bottle should last quite some time....
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