[redbudduckfoot]

so much love and respect!!!

rbdf

[Stonefree69]

Originally Posted by Jbonez

And some stuff I was waiting for arrived... RO/DI and ballasts, its about to start, cant wait...
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Real nice Jbonez!

Bulk Reef Supply's one of the best places to get a RO system as well as Spectrapure. I think many growers and aquarium hobbyists steer away from RO/DI water unless they have salt water tanks. Salt water reef hobbyists many times will split (use a compression T) on the RO outlet line for drinking (before it hits the DI filter). I have a Spectrapure and same 3 cartridge system below the RO filter as you and use a 10 micron sediment filter then a 5 micron sediment and then 5 micron carbon filter before water hits the RO membrane on top.

My outdoor plants get all the RO waste water plus when I do a weekly flush on my hydro system.

[JAAM]

Whats up J?? long time bro... hope things are well...

Looks like I got alot to catch up on in this thread... off to read alil...

[Jbonez]

Originally Posted by JAAM

Whats up J?? long time bro... hope things are well...

Looks like I got alot to catch up on in this thread... off to read alil...

Whole E Shit... whats up homie! hit me up man.. How ya been?

[Jbonez]

Originally Posted by Stonefree69

Real nice Jbonez!

Bulk Reef Supply's one of the best places to get a RO system as well as Spectrapure. I think many growers and aquarium hobbyists steer away from RO/DI water unless they have salt water tanks. Salt water reef hobbyists many times will split (use a compression T) on the RO outlet line for drinking (before it hits the DI filter). I have a Spectrapure and same 3 cartridge system below the RO filter as you and use a 10 micron sediment filter then a 5 micron sediment and then 5 micron carbon filter before water hits the RO membrane on top.

My outdoor plants get all the RO waste water plus when I do a weekly flush on my hydro system.

My filter is like this..

5micron sediment/ 5micron Carbon/ 1 micron Carbon/ Membrane/ DI resin..


Ive actually been having better results mixing RO and Tap water because I was getting some Ca def's.. Hell, mixing nutes is easier with tap, cuz the nutes drops it where I need it without having to ph it! Works great lol..

[TheArchitect]

Originally Posted by Jbonez

My filter is like this..

5micron sediment/ 5micron Carbon/ 1 micron Carbon/ Membrane/ DI resin..


Ive actually been having better results mixing RO and Tap water because I was getting some Ca def's.. Hell, mixing nutes is easier with tap, cuz the nutes drops it where I need it without having to ph it! Works great lol..

personally i think de ionization is relatively unnecessary, just another filter to replace, the pre filtering and ro filters are plenty.

as for the ca deficiency, it is likely due to lockout from high k levels.

you said you run lucas, and i know it can work in coco, but the number one complaint from folks running it in coco is mg or ca problems. k has an antagonistic effect on ca and mg. coco has high levels of k naturally, and lucas is on the high side of k application, skewing the ratio of k, ca, mg in the root zone.

is the tap actually working?


looks good though, take care...


edit:

lol, i was just thinking it looks like my first vert, i had indiana bub, tahoe og, g-13, cheese, and trainwreck.

all sorts of different stretches going on

[megayields]

Architect...can you expound on the lockout of CA due to high K levels? I'm a little slow on this concept but want to learn, great thread J-Bo!

[TheArchitect]

gladly mega, this is good info for all reading (hope ya dont mind J)

A critical balance exists among the K+, Ca2+, and Mg2+ cations; when they are
not in balance, plant stress occurs. When K is high in comparison to Ca or
Mg, the first likely effect to occur is Mg deficiency. In some instances, the
imbalance can induce a Ca deficiency. An imbalance among these three cations
is usually the result of excessive K fertilization, as K is more readily absorbed
and transported in the plant than is either Ca or Mg. This antagonism is greater
between K and Mg than between K and Ca. Despite these differences, care
must be taken to ensure that the proper balance between K and both Ca and
Mg is maintained so that an induced deficiency of either of these two elements
does not occur (Steiner, 1980). For best growth and fruit production for tomato,
for example, the content of K and Ca in recently mature leaves should be
about the same.

-James Benton Jones Jr, "Hydroponics: A Practical Guide for the Soilless Grower", pg 44-45.

Calcium content in plant leaves varies considerably, from 0.50 to 3.00% of the
dry weight; the critical value depending on plant species. In some species,
relatively little soluble or what may be referred to as "free Ca" is found in
plant tissue, with most of the Ca existing as crystals of calcium oxalate or as
precipitates of either calcium carbonate and/or phosphate. It has been suggested
that the Ca requirement for plants is very low (about 0.08%), similar
to that of a micronutrient, with higher concentrations required to detoxify the
presence of other cations, particularly the heavy metals, such as Mn, Cu, and
Zn (Wallace, 1971).
Calcium uptake is dependent on its concentration in the rooting medium
and rates of transpiration as the Ca2+ ion is passively transported in the
transpirational stream. Therefore, factors that affect the rate of transpiration
will then affect Ca2+ transport to the aerial portions of the plant. Calcium
uptake rate is less than that for K but remains fairly constant during the life of the plant. The rate of Ca uptake is also dependent on the counter-ions in
solution; it is highest when the NO3 - ion is present in the nutrient solution.
With maturity, Ca movement becomes restricted, and the influx into leaves
and developing fruit slows

pg 45-46

Calcium deficiency primarily affects leaf appearance, changing the shape of
the leaf and turning the tip brown or black. New emerging leaves will have
a torn appearance as margins stick together, tearing the leaf along its margins
as it expands. Some leaves may never fully expand to normal size and shape
when Ca is deficient. Calcium also significantly affects root growth and
development, and when deficient, roots turn brown, particularly the root
tips. One of the major effects of Ca deficiency is blossom-end-rot (BER) of
developing fruit, a physiological breakdown of the tissue at the blossom
end due to insufficient Ca present required for normal cell development and
metabolism.
Calcium deficiency or excess occurs in the plant when in the nutrient
solution an imbalance with the K+ and Mg2+ cations exists. In nutrient solution
formulas with the NH4
+ ion as the major source of N, this ion will act like K
and become a part of the cation balance, and therefore, affect the uptake of
Ca from the nutrient solution.
One of the results of NH4
+ toxicity is the breakdown of the vascular tissue
in the main stem of the plant that affects cell wall integrity, a Ca deficiency
induced by a cation imbalance in the nutrient solution

pg 46

Always invest in a good quality, well known brand of coco designed for soilless growing and don’t be fooled by the many inferior quality products on the market. While coco from different sources may look similar, there can be large differences in the quality and this can have a negative impact on plant growth. Coco products sold in garden stores and hardware outlets often as inexpensive compressed bricks of `garden mulch’ are not usually suitable for soilless growers – these types of coco are typically high in sodium (an unwanted element), high in total salt content, often have not been fully decomposed, and hence have a high nitrogen draw down which can result in nitrogen deficiency even when the full strength nutrient solution is applied. Inferior coco products are also not `buffered’, `conditioned’ or `pre-treated’ to stabilise the potassium levels and boost calcium which is required to offset the tendency of coco to retain calcium. They may also contain weed seeds and pathogens. Buying a reputable brand of coco for soilless growing is an important investment in the nutrition and health of the plants and also simplifies the process of growing a great crop.
Select the right nutrient product (i.e a specific coco nutrient product) to use on coco substrates. Coco growing media is not like many other soilless substrates such as rockwool which arrive pre sterilised, chemically inert with a low CEC and with a very minimal effect on the composition of the nutrient. Coco contains naturally occurring potassium which since potassium is a major plant nutrient, is considered a bonus; however this needs to be allowed for in the nutritional program of the plants. Coco also has other effects on the composition of the nutrient solution applied and levels of nitrate, phosphate, calcium, magnesium and iron may need to be adjusted to allow for these properties. There are commercial brands of specific `coco nutrient’ formulation products on the market, however it is always a good idea to select both the coco substrate and the coco nutrient of the same brand as it is likely they have been developed to work together and will give the best results. High quality coco products are likely to have been pre-treated and the accompanying coco nutrient will take this into account so that the ratio of elements in the root zone stays as optimal as possible.
Select the right type of coco product for the plants being grown. There are a large range of coco products on the market and many different grades with various horticultural uses. While orchids prefer a very coarse coco `chip’, using coco for propagation and germination of small seeds requires a much finer grade which will hold sufficient moisture as well as oxygen. General purpose coco which consists of a range of particle sizes is considered ideal for many plants and is the most widely used grade for soilless production. The coarser particles help the coco substrate remain more `open’ to aeration while the finer particles hold moisture between irrigations and the combination of both these, is what gives coco close to optimum physical structure for plant growth.
Remember that coco is a `living substrate’ and it should be treated as an entire eco-system which consists of beneficial microbes who make their home in the coco particles. This beneficial microbial life plays an important role in soilless systems as many fungi have a protectant effect on the plant’s root system and have been proven to suppress plant pathogens as well as other possible benefits with nutrient uptake and plant growth. While other growing substrates start out as sterile, coco is best left in its original state or even inoculated with populations of beneficial microbes such as Trichoderma. These populations of beneficial microbes in coco are to be encouraged and for that reason harsh sterilising chemicals such as chlorine bleach, hydrogen peroxide and even boiling water should not be used on coco substrates at any stage.
Coco usually maintains pH within an optimal range; however EC can build over time and should be checked from time to time, particularly under warm growing conditions where the plant may have been taking up a lot of water from the substrate, allowing the concentration of nutrients to climb. Because of the nature of coco growing media the EC around the plant’s roots may be different to that in the leachate or the solution draining from the growing slabs, pots or bags. A quick and simple `extraction sample EC test’ can be carried out on coco media to determine the actual EC around the root zone. For an extraction test, a small sample of coco is taken from the growing media, (several samples should be taken and combined to give a representative sample). Then 100ml of these combined samples is measured out (coco should be damp but not overly saturated). The 100ml sample of coco is placed in a jar and 150ml of deionised (or RO) water is added and the mixture shaken 50 times. This is allowed to sit overnight to allow extraction of nutrient ions in to the water. The resulting mix is then re shaken and filtered to remove particles and the pH and EC can be measured. The ideal pH range for the extract for most crops is between 5.5 – 6.2. Ideal EC levels vary depending on the stage of plant development, the growing environment and the crop being grown, however a general range is between EC 1.0 and 2.5 (tomatoes may be grown at much higher EC values, particularly with commercial crops). Larger scale growers and those in commercial production will often have the coco extract sent of to a lab for a complete nutrient analysis which determines the levels and ratios of each of the elements in the nutrient solution so that fine tuning adjustments can be made.
While coco is a great growing substrate it still needs to be monitored and just as with other substrates, it is possible to over water and saturate the root zone. Coco can look slightly dry on the surface and still be fully moist in the root zone, so checking the moisture a few inches below the surface is recommended. Moisture should be present when the coco is squeezed between the fingers but the surface of the growing media should not appear to be wet – over damp coco can also attract fungus gnats as well as reducing the level of oxygenation in the root zone.
Coco is an environmentally friendly substrate and a fully renewable resource which can be used for more than one crop. However once its usable life is over it still makes a valuable soil mulch or soil conditioner for outdoor plants, and can be added to vermiculture (worm farm) and compost systems.

tips from Dr Lynette Morgan.


hopes this helps.

[Jbonez]

Originally Posted by TheArchitect

personally i think de ionization is relatively unnecessary, just another filter to replace, the pre filtering and ro filters are plenty.

as for the ca deficiency, it is likely due to lockout from high k levels.

you said you run lucas, and i know it can work in coco, but the number one complaint from folks running it in coco is mg or ca problems. k has an antagonistic effect on ca and mg. coco has high levels of k naturally, and lucas is on the high side of k application, skewing the ratio of k, ca, mg in the root zone.

is the tap actually working?


looks good though, take care...


edit:

lol, i was just thinking it looks like my first vert, i had indiana bub, tahoe og, g-13, cheese, and trainwreck.

all sorts of different stretches going on

EDIT:

After reading your info, I dont think my K is too high, but still much higher than the Ca, how do I know this?

I have a small MG def spot on about 3 leaves... just like the info says. I think my tap water will bring a better balance..

Good post Architect!

[megayields]

Yes thank you Architect that made things much clearer! This is coming to be one of my favorite threads!