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DIY Budswell Questions

K

kushie

Member
Hello,

Thanks for the excellent resources and information presented in the organic soil section. I have learned alot and still learning more.

I am trying to get away from the hydro shop products but one I really like the results from is liquid budswel. So I started searching budswel and diy budswel since I wanted to make my own.

While doing some searching I found a post by ClackamasCootz

Excellent. Thanks for the recipe, After researching more and thinking things through. I have a few more questions about it.

------

Budwell 0-18-0

Guano source - Archipelago Bat Guano (ABG) and has been for over 30 years. Guano source is Indonesia.

To make the soluble Budswell 0-18-0 base formula.

1 cup of ABG guano to 1 gallon of water. 1/2 cup of EM-1 and 1/2 cup of a carbohydrate.

Let it sit and ferment for 2 - 3 weeks until you hit a pH of 3.2 or close as you can get.

Follow the application rate on the Budswel product.

------

That brings up some questions about the process and some of the missing ingredients.

Label indicates Budswel contains bat and bird guano, earthworm castings and seaweed. Or is it only guano?

I have ordered the following (some already had in hand, so open to more cost effective options until I have my own vermicomposting going) and was wondering if would they be satisfactory to implement into the recipe?

bat = abg guano (mentioned above)
bird = Primal Harvest Fossilized Seabird Guano
ewc = sanctuary soil buckaroo worm castings
seaweed = DTE kelp meal
sugar source = unsulphured blackstrap molasses

and
What do you suggest for amounts of each?
To get into the details of the process and make sure I understand correctly. I put the ingredients into my jug add un-activated EM then wait for the ph to drop.
That correct? Was not positive on whether I use activated on unactivated em.

Thanks for your time.
 
R

RanchoDeluxe

Member
IMHO you are making things more complicated than need be. Learn how to brew up some teas. That is one of the best ways at getting away from bottled nutes. I myself am tired of buying anything. I've been doing alot of reading lately on FPE's...take a look at that thread as well. CC and Microbeman really know their shit as well.
 
K

kushie

Member
RanchoDeluxe said:
IMHO you are making things more complicated than need be. Learn how to brew up some teas. That is one of the best ways at getting away from bottled nutes. I myself am tired of buying anything. I've been doing alot of reading lately on FPE's...take a look at that thread as well. CC and Microbeman really know their shit as well.
Click to expand...


imho, Don't see how it is all that complicated. Not much harder than brewing a tea. Hard part is getting the recipe right. Brew and check under microscope then repeat.

Obviously you are under the wrong assumption I do not brew aact and em already.

I do brew teas. I was asking for someone with experience to help get the recipe right. Basically this is a fpe. But not with solely plant matter.

Anyways Thanks for your opinion. Sharing is caring.

Anyone with hands-on experience in the matter have anything positive to share?
 
C

ClackamasCootz

Expired
Veteran
kushie

Is Citric acid or Phosphoric acid listed on the label of their liquid?

Better yet - what does the entire Active Ingredients section list?

CC
 
K

kushie

Member
Neo 420 said:
I would hunt CC and ask him about that. He is still around here some where.
Click to expand...
Thanks

RanchoDeluxe said:
I am trying to get away from the hydro shop products...

Whoa dude. Just trying to help with your intended goal. Take it easy.
Click to expand...

Right on. I figured I would ask here and share rather than figure it out and keep it to myself.

I prefer to stick with only earthworm and insect poop in my aact.
I want something quick and easy to apply even if it takes 3 weeks to brew.

I don't see where I was not taking it easy. I don't see anywhere I said anything negative and hope i did not come across that way. I thanked you for sharing.

for example: If you created a post asking about brewing aact. I would try and help you rather than tell you it is too complicated. fair enough?


ClackamasCootz said:
kushie

Is Citric acid or Phosphoric acid listed on the label of their liquid?

Better yet - what does the entire Active Ingredients section list?

CC
Click to expand...

citric/phosphoric acid is not listed.

My 1st post is incorrect about the kelp.

Derived from Bat Guano Seabird Guano and earthworm castings.
attachment.php


Thanks for your time everyone.
 

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C

ClackamasCootz

Expired
Veteran
kushie

The Phosphoric acid (P2O5) is there for a couple of reasons not the least is to prevent problems from the 'alive' material were it go anaerobic - worm castings.

So if you want to make this liquid and avoid having to add an agent like Phosphoric acid then you would want to process the guano separately and add the worm castings a few hours before using.

You would process this with EM-1 which is a product that contains several lactobacillus bacteria cultures, PNSBs and yeasts, enzymes, amino acids, etc.

I want to also state that I am not recommending either Budswel or fermenting guanos on your own. This is to answer a question and nothing more.

I'm not a guano cheerleader at all. The original Budswel product used ABG Bat Guano 0-18-0 which is $.75 per lb. so price isn't an issue at all.

HTH

CC
 
K

kushie

Member
ClackamasCootz said:
kushie

The Phosphoric acid (P2O5) is there for a couple of reasons not the least is to prevent problems from the 'alive' material were it go anaerobic - worm castings.

So if you want to make this liquid and avoid having to add an agent like Phosphoric acid then you would want to process the guano separately and add the worm castings a few hours before using.

You would process this with EM-1 which is a product that contains several lactobacillus bacteria cultures, PNSBs and yeasts, enzymes, amino acids, etc.

I want to also state that I am not recommending either Budswel or fermenting guanos on your own. This is to answer a question and nothing more.

I'm not a guano cheerleader at all. The original Budswel product used ABG Bat Guano 0-18-0 which is $.75 per lb. so price isn't an issue at all.

HTH

CC
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response to the question.

your statement then leads me to ask What would you recommend?

top dressing, mixing with medium, an extract.

I now get the impression you do not use any guano. Is this the case?

I did a control group. one tray with budswel one without and I liked the guano plants better. Same with others.

I read how many sfi folks do not use any guanos either. I knopw a guy only uses ewc but does not grow cannabis.

So is the guano a cannabis growers thing??

Thanks for the info on abg guano, that alone is saving big $$.

But I guess I will save even more. if I do not use any guano.... :)
 
C

ClackamasCootz

Expired
Veteran
Kushie

If I were going to use bat or bird guanos then I would top-dress the soil and then cover it with the best worm castings available. With microbial colonies in the soil on the bottom of the material and then the high-levels in worm castings you'll have the best chance to have the ions released and when watered into the root zone they would be available for the plant's roots to absorb.

Your second question about guano being a cannabis grower thing?

Absolutely - without question.

The main organic farm supplier for Oregon, Washington & Western Idaho is located in Portland. For a few years they were buying totes (1 cubic yard - 27 cubic feet) of the ABG Bat Guano. They were packaging it themselves in order to keep the price down - which they did. A large pail with 22 lbs. was around $16.00 so that was a killer price, right?

Well it sat. And sat. About the time that the local cannabis growers 'discovered' this 75 year old company the sales of this guano began to race up meaning that the store had to do more packaging. The problems with dust alone made this a no-go. Sitting in a tote and scooping out 100 lbs. every 6 months was one thing - trying to take care of the 'tomato growers' was another.

Finally they ran an ad offering this guano for big discounts to deplete inventory - they wanted out of the guano business because their big customers - certified organic farms, nurseries, etc. didn't use it and having to deal with 'tomato growers' is too much trouble so they fixed that by bringing in smaller packs with the obligatory higher prices and now they sell a lot of guano to the tomato growers and make bank on it and do not have to deal with worker safety regulations, etc.

HTH

CC
 
K

kushie

Member
ClackamasCootz said:
Kushie

If I were going to use bat or bird guanos then I would top-dress the soil and then cover it with the best worm castings available. With microbial colonies in the soil on the bottom of the material and then the high-levels in worm castings you'll have the best chance to have the ions released and when watered into the root zone they would be available for the plant's roots to absorb.

Your second question about guano being a cannabis grower thing?

Absolutely - without question.

The main organic farm supplier for Oregon, Washington & Western Idaho is located in Portland. For a few years they were buying totes (1 cubic yard - 27 cubic feet) of the ABG Bat Guano. They were packaging it themselves in order to keep the price down - which they did. A large pail with 22 lbs. was around $16.00 so that was a killer price, right?

Well it sat. And sat. About the time that the local cannabis growers 'discovered' this 75 year old company the sales of this guano began to race up meaning that the store had to do more packaging. The problems with dust alone made this a no-go. Sitting in a tote and scooping out 100 lbs. every 6 months was one thing - trying to take care of the 'tomato growers' was another.

Finally they ran an ad offering this guano for big discounts to deplete inventory - they wanted out of the guano business because their big customers - certified organic farms, nurseries, etc. didn't use it and having to deal with 'tomato growers' is too much trouble so they fixed that by bringing in smaller packs with the obligatory higher prices and now they sell a lot of guano to the tomato growers and make bank on it and do not have to deal with worker safety regulations, etc.

HTH

CC
Click to expand...

Thanks for your detailed response and suggestions.
Appreciate it.
 
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