[Rush Limbong]

Ok, lets say I'm growing in an average size guest bedroom(child's bedroom).

I'm only blowing out 2kw, but I'm cooling the hoods EXTREMELY well.


What then can be picked up by infrared? Does it find concentrated heat, or does it look for rooms that have a definate heat "code" than the others. Will their infrared cameras be able to show two 1kwatters hanging from the ceiling in all their glory??

I figure if I'm overkilling on the hood venting, then wtf?

RUSH

short answer is they can seeeeee yooouuuuu

Assuming that we're strictly talking about F.L.I.R. (Forward Looking Infra-Red); it views (disparities in) heat signatures on surfaces. It is not Clark Kent's eyes, (though there are rumors and more of other tools that violate privacy moreso than FLIR does).

In the Danny Kilo/Kelo case (spelling??) (and yes, that was his real name apparently; how fitting...) in Oregon about five+ years ago, the SCOTUS ruled that LEO has to have a warrant in order to shoot FLIR.

However, in the day of the USA PATRIOT Act, with warrants dropping on the ground like graham cracker crumbs at a kindergarten nap time, warrants are not hard to come by AT ALL.

Can they see a heat disparity on the various surfaces of the house (i.e., different rooms putting out different temps ON THE OUTER SURFACE OF THE BUILDING'S WALLS to the point that they can claim that the heat signature is one that is commonly associated with a grow operation (whatever-the-fuck THAT means!!)?

The question's answer boils down to this. How well insulated are you in your walls and ceilings (including a very tight vapor barrier)? How well is your home's air circulation? How well is the area cooled or discipated into other areas of the home?

And lastly, how willing to falsify statements on a warrant application are your local LEOs?

Add all those variables up on your calculator and either call a carpenter, a Supreme Being, or kick back and relax, depending upon whatever you come up with in your assessment.

When they busted Mr. Kilo/Kelo in Oregon, they weren't even there for HIM; they'd gone to his street to bust a neighbor of his, and apparently decided to conserve on gas mileage when, I believe, another neighbor pointed to his house and said something mean-spirited or snoopy.

They pointed their toys at his garage, and sure enough, got a hot surface signature, warmer than the other parts of the home.

How'd they know that he didn't have his boiler or ??? in the garage? They don't care; they're voyeurs. So pull the blinds on your daughter's bedroom window, cause, on the whole, they've got very little honor amongst them.

Regards,

moose eater

[NiteTiger]

Originally Posted by celtic

short answer is they can seeeeee yooouuuuu

Moose Eater nailed it. Your furnace or whatever heats the walls and ceiling causing the variations in red corresponding to surface temperatures. The outside wall of that room may be hotter than joining outside walls.

Helicopters may look at the roofs for areas glowing darker. I would call a contractor and request a heat leak IR test and go from there. I picture it like this: 1000 watt HPS is comparable to turning on ten 100w lamps. Ten lamps ain't that suspicious IMO, nor would 20 or 30 (one could install a hot tub, reef aquarium, photo studio, arc welder equipment, etc). Now, six 1000 watters (60 100 watt lamps! ) starts lookin suspicious......

[Rush Limbong]

Yeah, I agree. There's too many variables to consider. I'm afraid of that "accidental" bust, kinda like ya boy "kilo".

I did have a reef tank set up in my livingroom (about 5 years ago) before I even thought about growing. Anyway, when I look back, I had six VHO flo on that bitch. Now, it's not alot of watts considering, but when I would go outside at night to walk my dog, it looked like I had street lights on in my livingroom. You could see through the blinds, and curtains....real fucking bright!! I never had any "knock and talks" or anything.

I wonder if I would have had two 1000k going like that instead of the VHO's??? If I was growing, that would have been some serious light leaks.

Rush

Thanks One Toke.

You can have an R-60 ceiling and R-40 walls, with an air-tight vapor barrier and 'heat recovery ventilator' (HRV) so that you don't suffocate in your 'energy efficient house,' but your windows will STILL be your weakest link in the equation you've inquired about.

In the sub-arctic where I live, it's not uncommon to have triple-pane glass, (Low E, argon gas-filled); they STILL only rate an R-4 +/-. FLIR will read ANY exterior surface, .... SO, if your house is cool as a cucumber on the outside walls, and 90% of your windows read as the mean between outside and inside temp (roughly speaking) but windows in another area of the home read as 20 degrees (just for example) hotter on the exterior surface than any other windows, then there's a potential for questions.

The imagination is a wonderful thing though when it comes to any of these challenges.

As a side note, if folks in the U.S. built their homes to super-energy-efficient standards, we could feasibly reduce our nations intake of heating fuel (and thus foreign oil) by about 60% in my calculations. Warmer (more private) homes, less mid-east oil, cleaner air, cheaper cost of living, etc..... and insulation and visqueen, in contrast to other expenses i building a home, are relatively cheap.

Canada has been one of the countries on the cutting edge of this trend; BOTH brands of reputable HRVs currently available in Alaska are built in Canada! (Oh Canada!!)

Regards,

moose eater

[Ron Bennett]

Growing underground is about the only practical way to avoid infrared imaging for any decent size grow. The heat generated still has to be dumped somewhere, but operating underground, if the area is large enough, will dissipate much of the heat while the remainder can be dumped outside in a descreet manner (think dryer vent, etc) or better yet, use the excess to supplement one's heating needs inside - a more workable solution in colder climates.

To effectively shield the heat signature any other way for anything other than the smallest grows will require a construction project beyond the scope / budget of most growers.

Ron

Hi Ron,

Depending upon how deep you're talking here, the ground can still put off a heat signature. One that looks even more suspect, if it's not deep enough in the earth, or it's poorly insulated. Otherwise the imagery on FLIR will look like a baren piece of ground with a nice outline of the heated structure beneath the surface radiating into the earth and dimming as it cools, or reaches equal temps with the ground.

On the other hand, adjusting for angles of view from above, and extending the foundation of a building that sits atop, outward, beyond the perimeter walls of the under-ground den, so that the building 'beneath' is of smaller over-all area than the building above, and having private access, compensates for the questions that might otherwise arise about why your ground might be glowing on their screen.

Without the building to cover the signature above, then a buried building needs to be 1.) SUPER-INSULATED, 2.) Heated exhaust to an area that oughta have heat showing, with the ducting also incredibly insulated, and 3.) Really friggin' deep.

The simple connex with 3"-4" of foam (equalling about R-15 to R-20), buried <five feet beneath the surface will, guranteed, put off a notable signature.

I recall two such operations being taken down. One big and one minor. Both resulting in major headaches.

But you could always tell 'em that you've got a symmetrically-shaped geo-thermal spring and pool, sub-surface, in the back yard, that you just haven't gotten around to developing yet... ;^>) It will, if nothing else, increase the value of the property!

Regards,

moose eater

[Rush Limbong]

I think you guys ^ especially moose eater, are getting to technical. I'm talking about two 1000watters, not a whole fricking grow cave like the one that got busted in Tenn.

I'm sure people keep specific rooms warmer, than other ones in the house. I know I do. I'm a heat nut, gotta have temps approaching 75-80 degrees in certain rooms......EXACTLY the temps you want for a grow room.

Like I said, if you're cooling the hell out of your bulbs, and say exhausting the heat into an already hot attic, what's the deal??

I guees I was wondering if the wattage of the light, the intensity of a 1000w, would somehow show up on some screen.