[irobot sd]

Well this is a situation I am not sure how to go about. Wanted to get some IC input, for anyone I could think of asking will be of no help. So this house is a rental. The landlord is very sweet & nice and actually have their daughter managing the property. She is really down to earth & easy to get along with. (she seems like a pot smoker to me) So this service panel is pretty old & outdated. It's recessed into the building frame making it a bit difficult to feed. There's 2 breaker spaces left so there is space to add a sub panel. What I'm getting at is this could really use a Service panel upgrade. Thinking 200amp. So I'm aware of the steps to go about the upgrade. My question & concern is about getting the landlord involved. Would my electric company need the home owner to sign for this? Or can the renter get this upgrade done with a licensed electrician, & deal with the electric company without a home owner present?

[OrganicBuds]

Are you sure you realize the scale of a project like this?

First off you should pull permits, which would mean involving the owner. Then you have to get PG&E or who ever your power provider is involved. Which also means notifying the owner. Then depending on the install, this could cost upwards of $2000 just for the electrical, minus any painting.

Good luck to you but I voted are you crazy.

EDIT: All this advice if you are doing a main panel change only.

If it's not your house you really should get permission. It's not like adding an entirely new, much larger electrical service is something basic like changing a door knob.

It is a pretty costly endeavor and it will add value to her home, if you pay for it I don't see why she would say no.

I would just say the power is insufficient for your life style. That is a really small panel, is this a house or apartment?

If the electricity is not in your name you will have to go thru the landlord because the power will have to be turned off by the electric company and the work will most likely need to be inspected.

As far as being outdated; it is actually up to date. If it was an old fuse box the insurance company would want it updated. Those are pretty new molded case breakers, saying its outdated wouldn't fly. Those breakers are what you would find in a brand new home line panel if you installed it today.

If you make such a major upgrade without permission you could end up with a law suit down the road.

[irobot sd]

Ok I admit myself this sounds crazy but a heres more info. There is no grow going on here currently. Also really only paying out of the pocket for materials not labor. Landlord gave go-ahead to do electrical upgrades on lighting & receptacles. Don't really mind getting them involved for the upgrade if it's mandatory. Costs aside would this be a worth-while upgrade?
Also tenant pays for all bills and they're all switched from owner.

Well if it is worth $1500-2000+ grand, then yes.

What size is your current electrical service? it's hard to tell from that pic. You have 2 breaker spaces open, so that's potentially 40 amps+ of 120v you can use without an upgrade, or you could throw in a 50 or 60 amp 240v breaker and put in another sub panel. With that panel being recessed even adding a sub could be tricky.

It really all depends on what size grow you are looking to put in, and how much power you currently use in the rest of the house. Some of those existing circuits might still have extra power available on them if they only feed wall receptacles.

I can tell you right now, just by the way that panel looks it will not be your typical service upgrade. You will need a new, larger wire routed from the outside to the panel, a new panel and to rewire all the existing shit. And the way that panel is recessed you may have to do additional construction work to get a new wire from point A to point B.

You will also have to box off and extend all of the existing wiring to reach the new panel, which is a bit of added work.

Looking at whats there it must be a pretty small house or there is a lot of shit on each circuit. A new panel will have 42 breaker spaces, looks like you are only currently using 6.

[irobot sd]

Originally Posted by Iron_Lion

If it's not your house you really should get permission. It's not like adding an entirely new, much larger electrical service is something basic like changing a door knob.

It is a pretty costly endeavor and it will add value to her home, if you pay for it I don't see why she would say no.

I would just say the power is insufficient for your life style. That is a really small panel, is this a house or apartment?

If the electricity is not in your name you will have to go thru the landlord because the power will have to be turned off by the electric company and the work will most likely need to be inspected.

As far as being outdated; it is actually up to date. If it was an old fuse box the insurance company would want it updated. Those are pretty new molded case breakers, saying its outdated wouldn't fly. Those breakers are what you would find in a brand new home line panel if you installed it today.

If you make such a major upgrade without permission you could end up with a law suit down the road.

Agreed this is major. This is a 3br house. With washer dryer. Pretty much 2000 sqft. Those four 15 amp circuits supply the whole house. All the exterior lighting is lamp cord barely stapled to the house coming from a random j-box. It's a joke. Really the only reason I don't want to involve the little old lady is because i know she spent at least $10k on this place to fix up the previous tenants disaster. New carpet, garage, blinds, paint, repairs. I'm afraid she has no more budget to spare on this place. Thats the only reason I can think of why she wouldn't want to. If I could explain that this would not cost her and that the panel is insufficient for me can't see why she would really mind.

[rives]

I agree with everything Iron Lion told you. I would only add that if I had a tenant who did something that major to my house without my knowledge, I would be one extremely pissed-off landlord. On the other hand, particularly with what you are describing as the situation, I would be happy to adjust the rent to compensate if I was made aware of the situation in advance.

Is that the main panel, or a sub panel? Cant see the main breaker, how many amps is it. I see 5 circuits coming in but only 2 ground wires, looks like old wire too, careful the coating gets brittle and breaks easy. How many lights you wanna run?
If its a small grow just run a dedicated 20 amp line to the room, on an arch fault breaker. Clean those cobwebs too. I fucking love changing panels.

[irobot sd]

Originally Posted by Iron_Lion

Well if it is worth $1500-2000+ grand, then yes.

What size is your current electrical service? it's hard to tell from that pic. You have 2 breaker spaces open, so that's potentially 40 amps+ of 120v you can use without an upgrade, or you could throw in a 50 or 60 amp 240v breaker and put in another sub panel. With that panel being recessed even adding a sub could be tricky.

It really all depends on what size grow you are looking to put in, and how much power you currently use in the rest of the house. Some of those existing circuits might still have extra power available on them if they only feed wall receptacles.

I can tell you right now, just by the way that panel looks it will not be your typical service upgrade. You will need a new, larger wire routed from the outside to the panel, a new panel and to rewire all the existing shit. And the way that panel is recessed you may have to do additional construction work to get a new wire from point A to point B.

You will also have to box off and extend all of the existing wiring to reach the new panel, which is a bit of added work.

Looking at whats there it must be a pretty small house or there is a lot of shit on each circuit. A new panel will have 42 breaker spaces, looks like you are only currently using 6.

Yes you're right. That panel is by a window and me & sparky were already saying how a new panel may not fit there. Meaning would have to move weather head and new panel over about 6' - 8'. J-box old circuits and move them to new breakers. This old panel is really tight and hard to work in. It's going to be hard to feed off. It must be a 100A. With 2 left There is enough space for a 50A or 60A. Have a 8 light MLC and would like to be able to run 6 - 8 600w lights @ 240v. Would like to also add a split ac sometime and thats another 20A right there. Knowing I'd like to make upgrades is why the Service is plan A and the subpanel is plan B. This place really is big but driving around the neighborhood I see all the panels are these tiny babys. I'm guessing there is a lot of shit on each circuit. There wasn't even 1 gfci in the whole house. My elec teacher would loose hair just looking at this place. 42 vs 6 is whats so tempting!

[irobot sd]

Originally Posted by apep

Is that the main panel, or a sub panel? Cant see the main breaker, how many amps is it. I see 5 circuits coming in but only 2 ground wires, looks like old wire too, careful the coating gets brittle and breaks easy. How many lights you wanna run?
If its a small grow just run a dedicated 20 amp line to the room, on an arch fault breaker. Clean those cobwebs too. I fucking love changing panels.

Dude that IS the main straight from the transformer. Theres four 15A circuits for the entire house. And two 30A for the washer/dryer. And 2 spaces left. No ground.