[FlowerFarmer]

Hello,

I'm currently running blumats in coco w/ Micro/Bloom (Head Recipe) and a hair of Bloombastic later on. I've also been adding CalMag Plus at 5mL/Gal

I'm about 25 days into flower and the plants look great except some are starting to show a few signs something is up.

Just a few of my fan leaves are kind of "wrinkled" so to speak where the end or mid of the leaf has changed direction on itself. Could be described as hooking or twisting I'd say. Is this a sign of lockout / toxicity?

I never typically check pH anymore as its normally always right on, but after seeing this potential issue I checked my barrels and they were a tad low. One was 5.3.. the other two 5.6 - 5.8. I realize this is a bit low for coco and I have corrected up to 6.0. Not sure if this issue is strictly pH or if I'm starting to develop lockout/build-up.

I think I may have been experiencing a bit of salt accumulation and have heard drip clean works wonders. I plan on giving it a try next round.

I'm not in a position to actively flush with a ton of run-off and was curious if adding Drip Clean now resolve any potential build-up and lockout that is possibly starting to occur. Since I may already have accumulation will drip clean have a negative effect? I can water to run-off by hand, but not a ton of run-off.

I dont have a close up pic of leaf right now but you can kind of see what I'm taking about in the right of this pic



Nothing severe..just some slightly twisting/hooking or an otherwise jank looking leaves.

[megayields]

I regularly use drip clean to prevent salt buildups but if your already locked up...you might have to flush completely...but I'm no expert just my two Euros.

[+Vibes]

from my experience an unstable ph will cause the leaf twisting.
drip clean will be for next round, don't use it now, but it seems like you know that already. if a high volume flush is not available i would still recommend a low nutrient, pH 5.8 hand watering, maybe throw in some humic acid to really please & help fix them. good luck

[TheCatsMeow]

from what i can see, those pots seem all too dry. from the top surface to the bottom drainage, i dont see any bit of dampness. maybe thats why you are experiencing a salt build up??

if you can not perform a proper flush then my suggestion would be to feed @ a low EC until you see the plants show signs of hunger.

Save the drip clean for next round.

PS- you might wanna lay off the calmag soon. now that you're soon entering the 5th week of flower, its my understanding that the additional nitrogen in the CalMag+ is no longer needed

[FlowerFarmer]

I appreciate the replies.

The pots are not dry. They appear that way because I am using blumats but I assure you they are well watered and have some weight to them. * surface appears dry when using blumats but underneath the top layer the pot has an overall good moisture level.

I'm going to take your suggestions and do a proper pH'd hand watering with low EC to run-off and see if that helps.

I appreciate the heads up on the Calmag. I've heard the same but have been continuing to use it as I see some slight Mg def in the lower leaves. After checking pH I now believe it may just be too low as Mg is best absorbed around 6.0-6.2 or so I've learned.

[Desert Hydro]

if you can get the drip clean and keep your ph stable. i was doing the same thing for a while. some times with blumats its easy to get lazy because they really do ALL the work lol. DC is the shit! if it is a salt build up issue it should help you out. if its ph, then you have already fixed your problem. its like 21$ but lasts FOREVER. ive run several large reservoirs on several grows and i just now had to refill.

oh and a side note, DC wil help shorten your flush time and your end result will be much smoother and cleaner. ive had to chop plants with no flush and no one knew the difference with a good cure

Hey FF.....sorry I showed up too late , but guaranteed Dripclean`s your friend with coco and blumats..and....

Lower ppm`s across the board`s your friend with Blumats since they get fed constantly and that`s where your lockout/ph issues curling/twistin leaves are comin from due to residual salt buildup without the dripclean.....so....

When yas flush coco to reduce ppm`s ALWAYS use 1/2 strength nutes to keep from leachin out too much cal/mag and potassium and causin more harm than good , but .....

Always lower your nitrogen content and up your P and K to maintain consistent ppm`s no higher than 750 IME , be it from droppin Cal/Mag doseage or less Micro to bring more bloom formula into the mix....anyways.....

Dripclean ftw.....No runoff required as in DTW coco as in not necessary anymore.....1 ml per gal will make yas happy.....guaranteed....

Peace....DHF...........

[blissfest]

CalMag is a funny thing, I dont care for it. I use 1/2 gram per gal. Epsom salt here and there.

DripClean is kickass though and I use it every water/feeding.

Here is a post by "delta9nxs" that explains alot, and im a believer



Hello, people!

“it is a fact that cal mag is necessary for optimum growth. Just ask any commercial or professional grower.”

Well, yes, that's true, but I am a professional grower and I don't use any calcium or magnesium supplements because I don't have to. That's because I use a nutrient that already contains more than adequate amounts of each and I run ph at levels that allow for sufficient uptake. In the greenhouse hydro industry growing tomatoes with drip irrigation in perlite culture many operations use bulk nutrient preparations that are dry and come in two parts. One part contains everything but calcium nitrate, the other part is calcium nitrate. They keep them separate to prevent magnesium sulfate and calcium nitrate from interacting. Just as the gh flora series, techniflora nutes and many others do, liquid or dry. The one part flora nova gets away with everything in one bottle as it is a colloidal suspension that separates during storage, thus preventing the interaction. However, there are many nutrient packages that don't contain sufficient cal-mag. Pure blend pro is a classic example. You absolutely must use cal-mag with it to avoid disaster.

I am currently using maxibloom for flowering. It is a one part product that does not have any reactions until you put it into solution in water. It contains ample amounts of cal-mag.

The calcium/magnesium deficiency most folks run into eventually using hydro nutes is caused by ph being maintained at levels that don't allow for decent uptake. Not by the nutrients being low on either calcium or magnesium.

I know I run the risk here of opening up a whole can of worms on proper cannabis hydro ph, but here goes anyway.

Most of the ph charts you see are incorrect or misleading. Most would have you believe that if you don't run at a specific ph you are running the risk of lockout of one element or the other. Some depict uptake of elements at different ph points that don't even overlap with their recommendation for ideal ph, usually at around 5.8.

The truth is that there is no such thing as ideal ph and there are no finite points where lockouts occur. Every application is a compromise. However, the 5.8 recommendation is right in the middle of the range where you get the least calcium and magnesium uptake. You are still getting some, but usually not enough. You either have to get above 6.0-6.1 or below 5.5 to get adequate uptake of calcium or magnesium. I believe that above 5.5 phosphorus availability starts diminishing so I start my input solution at 5.2. As nutrients are used and evaporation/transpiration occur the ph will climb. The girls love it and show no symptoms of deficiency.

So, if you are using ro or distilled water and your nutrient shows calcium and magnesium on the label try running your ph between 5.1 and 5.4 for a while and see what happens. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

If you are using ro water it is probable that you have very hard water from your tap and you decided to use ro water to solve the problem. If your tap water is over 200 ppm at the .5 conversion (milwaukee meters), you probably have too much calcium in your water. The calcium in your tap water plus the calcium in your nutrient solution can add up to an over abundance of calcium. An excess of calcium can cause a magnesium deficiency. You see the mag deficiency first and you think you need more magnesium so you add cal-mag thereby aggravating the situation. You can run into a similar scenario adding epsom salts (magnesium sulphate) to your solution. Too much of one nutrient can cause problems with uptake of another.

If your tap water is below around 150 ppm and doesn't contain more than 70 ppm calcium (only a water analysis can tell you this) try correcting ph to 5.2 for a while. With Ro water, if your nutes show Mg and Ca on the label, try 5.2 for a while.
Or you can blend ro water and tap water in proportions that get your tds below 100 ppm, then try 5.2 for a while.

My tap water is slightly over 200 ppm most of the time, so I blend tap 40%/ro 60% and end up with a reading of around 80 ppm before nutes are added. I chose this ratio because of the ph buffering capability inherent in the tap water mixed with ro at this ratio allows me to get away without using ph adjusters, either up or down. 2 gals tap plus 3 gals ro plus 2 level tablespoons maxibloom gives me 5.2 at around 950 ppm every time. I have visually perfect plants showing no signs excess or deficiency.

Well, I hope this little discourse helps someone be a better grower. Later delta9nxs

[Desert Hydro]

my tap water is 789 ppm. is that too high? lol and no that is not a joke. i just tested it while writing this to see where it is at

[rives]

Originally Posted by Desert Hydro

my tap water is 789 ppm. is that too high? lol and no that is not a joke. i just tested it while writing this to see where it is at

So does that actually flow out of the faucet or do you have to physically drag it out, kicking & screaming?


Blissfest, it seems that it has become very popular around here to disparage the use of cal-mag, and while I understand the reasoning full well, very few of these same people are advocating getting a water analysis. Without that, deciding that you don't need cal-mag is just as short-sighted as deciding that you do. "Mag-hogs" do exist, and using LED's seems to amplify the need for whatever reason. My tap water, for instance, has 1.1 ppm Mg and 4.6 ppm Ca. I haven't run across a nutrient yet that has adequate levels without being supplemented.

*edit* Actually, I am hoping that I have found a nutrient that works by itself. I just started a run with Veg + Bloom Soft Water/RO formulation, and am hoping that it does the trick. We'll see!