[plumbum]

here is the pictures of GG#4 in the beginning of flower fed 1.9 EC

[dansbuds]

Originally Posted by plumbum

Dansbuds, could you please elaborate on this "it locks up the budset" what do you exactly mean by that??

the reason i am asking - i am doing the test run with V+B DOS in coco/perlite mix and i am trying to dial it in. in the past, when i ran cutting edge solutions, i had to feed very high with GG4 in first few transition weeks (under gavitas/CO2) - about 1.8-1.9 EC to avoid fading and deficiencies. I did the same with V+B and my plants didn't really stacked right. the top colas are loose and there are quite big spaces within top cola. interesting enough some lower side branches are bigger and stacked right compared to main top colas. i will try to take a picture.

i vegged plants with house and garden and then switched to V+B DOS right after flip to flower.

you just described locking out the budset .... by feeding them to heavy the buds don't set right & won't grow after a certian point , they might grow a ittle but they won't fill in & you'll have what looks like foxtails or tiny rock hard buds that never grow .

you can feed her that much in veg to get her green & happy .... a little extra magnesium is a good thing for her ...... but once the buds start to form in flower ..... don't go over 1.2EC ! she don't like it in flower !!!
i have a few strains like that , you feed them heavy in veg & transition to keep them really happy , but once budset starts ..... you drop the EC levels real low or they get pissy ! your not growing the plant at that point anymore .... roots are basically done growing , stretch has stopped & its starting to flower ..... things change & so should your feeds .
theres scientific terminantion for it , but i'm just a dumb pot grower , i dunno terminology lol

[Aspenou812]

I hope he listens to that advise.... We learned well I learned that the hard way....oops....

[stewart169]

Originally Posted by dansbuds

you just described locking out the budset .... by feeding them to heavy the buds don't set right & won't grow after a certian point , they might grow a ittle but they won't fill in & you'll have what looks like foxtails or tiny rock hard buds that never grow .

you can feed her that much in veg to get her green & happy .... a little extra magnesium is a good thing for her ...... but once the buds start to form in flower ..... don't go over 1.2EC ! she don't like it in flower !!!
i have a few strains like that , you feed them heavy in veg & transition to keep them really happy , but once budset starts ..... you drop the EC levels real low or they get pissy ! your not growing the plant at that point anymore .... roots are basically done growing , stretch has stopped & its starting to flower ..... things change & so should your feeds .
theres scientific terminantion for it , but i'm just a dumb pot grower , i dunno terminology lol

You just described my grow. Half way thru flower I had some signs of def or lockout. Had been feeding pretty heavy with liquid bone meal and liquid kelp. Last full feed was day 40. Today is day 60 and all milky trichromes. Maybe a couple more days.

[dansbuds]

everybody thinks that the more you feed the plants the bigger the buds will be ..... thats just not the case in 90% of the strains we grow ! they like it heavy during the growth periods when they need the food to grow healthy .... but once that growth has stopped & budset starts .... they don't need nearly as much food . most times the budset is most abundant during the last 2 weeks when we're feeding nothing but plain water & the plants using up what reserves it has in the medium & itself .

[Lyfespan]

Originally Posted by dansbuds

everybody thinks that the more you feed the plants the bigger the buds will be ..... thats just not the case in 90% of the strains we grow ! they like it heavy during the growth periods when they need the food to grow healthy .... but once that growth has stopped & budset starts .... they don't need nearly as much food . most times the budset is most abundant during the last 2 weeks when we're feeding nothing but plain water & the plants using up what reserves it has in the medium & itself .

weeks 1-3
1.4-1.6 ec

defol in week 3

weeks 4-5
.8-1.0 ec

defol in week 5

weeks 6-7

.2-.4 ec depending on fade quickness

weeks 8-9

just RO water to pull unused nutes from medium

[plumbum]

Originally Posted by dansbuds

you just described locking out the budset .... by feeding them to heavy the buds don't set right & won't grow after a certian point , they might grow a ittle but they won't fill in & you'll have what looks like foxtails or tiny rock hard buds that never grow .

you can feed her that much in veg to get her green & happy .... a little extra magnesium is a good thing for her ...... but once the buds start to form in flower ..... don't go over 1.2EC ! she don't like it in flower !!!
i have a few strains like that , you feed them heavy in veg & transition to keep them really happy , but once budset starts ..... you drop the EC levels real low or they get pissy ! your not growing the plant at that point anymore .... roots are basically done growing , stretch has stopped & its starting to flower ..... things change & so should your feeds .
theres scientific terminantion for it , but i'm just a dumb pot grower , i dunno terminology lol

thank you for your help dansbuds, i will try to follow your advice next time. i am not used to this kind of behavior. but then again, i am not used to feeding that high either. though through years growing with coco i've learned - when you start to feed coco higher usually all deficiencies disappear. you not really feeding a plant directly like with hydro. you feed coco and then coco gives back to the plant. especially important first few week after replanting.

i am at new spot right now and everything is different - RO water vs very clean tap, sealed room, higher light intensity with gravitas, higher CO2 levels and new strain! i've only grew GG#4 twice by now.

she was very hungry in veg and i figured out early on she loved magnesium. so i have been adding up to 1 g/Gallon of epsom salts. i would raise feed EC up to 1.8-1.9 and she seemed happier, when i start to see signs of over-fertilization I would back up and start feeding her lower. in response she would start showing mag and sometimes cal deficiencies and purpling of the stems. and then fading would start way too early so i would bring EC back up.

I would treat her as usual and do couple times a week spikes with MKP with low feed. but no matter what she would get stuck around week 4,5,6 and not really developing. later after week 7 she would finally start to swell and really push last few weeks.

i feel like all way through i've been struggling with her. nevertheless i did well and bit my personal record with 1.6 g/w with 2.5 weeks of veg and 9 week of flower. that was with cutting edge solutions and i didn't have budset lockout.



now with V+B DOS running 60% A / 40% B + Shine starting weeks 4 she seems happier in veg and transition. but i get budset lockout running similar EC. looking at elemental nutrient analysis i have been running similar ppm numbers, actually somewhat lower P and K. i wonder if it is because of switch from more available liquid nutrients to powder. possibly after some time salts get deposited in the medium and start "burning" plant which gives this particular reaction to bud formation? another option is phosphites in Shine react differently then phosphates...

[plumbum]

Originally Posted by Aspenou812

I hope he listens to that advise.... We learned well I learned that the hard way....oops....

Aspenou i would like to hear your "hard way" experience

Originally Posted by Lyfespan

weeks 1-3
1.4-1.6 ec

defol in week 3

weeks 4-5
.8-1.0 ec

defol in week 5

weeks 6-7

.2-.4 ec depending on fade quickness

weeks 8-9

just RO water to pull unused nutes from medium

Lyfespan, what light intensity and CO2 levels are you running? and what is your medium, container size and how often do you feed?

unfortunately, it's not that easy to follow somebody's advice since so many factors are in play - genetics, environment, medium, irrigation practices etc.. but i am listening and would like to try things out

[Aspenou812]

That's the same thing did with my gg4 ... Nope low feeds
...

[Rondon]

Dans buds is spot on. Plants take in 80% of the nutrients (especially nitrogen) in veg. Veg is where its at. You can blast em (to a point). This is where they get veggy and leafy and root explosion. A nice deep green and a vibrant vigourous growing plant. This is what you want in veg. Veg to me IS EVERYTHING. Its the whole foundation for later in in bud set. And Ive actually done this..you can back off the EC/Ppm slightly when full tilt in flower mode (most strains ive grown) and they get on just fine. And they actually like it. It seems counter intuitive but they don't need much in flower. Once they set/stop stretching and start packing weight and trichomes..they dont need much in the root zone. Maybe some potassium and magnesium sulfate but not much. Most growers seem to think hammer em at peak flower production but you can run into salt overload/lockout and problems in mid late flower and many growers do. You can always tell because I see photos of people's grows towards the end and the plants and leaves especially look all burnt and beat to shit. Flowering boosters are not needed. Esp the p/k ones. The plant flowers in accordance with the lighting photoperiod (phytochrome) and not blasted with high strength/ec/ppm fertilizers.